Universal Clays - what am I doing wrong?

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NINEX19

New member
OK, so it must be me since I have not found anything online to lead me to believe that others are having the same issue of always having unburned powder when using Universal Clays.

I have tried most loadings in 9mm, 38 spl., 38 spl.+p, .357 Mag. using most bullet weights, different length barrels, etc. I can not seem to find a load where I do not have unburned powder in the barrel, action, or cylinder.

So whats up with that? Do I have a bad batch? loading too light even though I have tried all max loads?

This is the first pound I have bought and at this point will not buy again... even if I could find it.

I am sure it is fine for shot shells, I just don't load those so have no experience.

Has anyone else experienced this or know how to correct it? I am ready to throw the rest out or give it away. I find no good use for it.
 
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I have a little bit of unburned powder when I use it for .45 ACP, but not enough to bother me. It burns clean and doesnt' leave a heavy soot residue. I have very little with 9mm.

It is great powder IMO, very versatile. Wish I could find some more to supplement what I have.
 
I have used it (and still do), for 32ACP, 32 SWL, 38, 38+p, 9mm and 45 - works great in both revolver and semi; burns a lot cleaner than Unique.
 
Unless the "unburned" powder is causing accuracy or functioning issues, ignore it.
UNIVERSAL Clays (as opposed to "Clays"**) is on par with Unique -- and we all know how useless that powder is. ;)



** (I do wish they'd get rid of that "Clays Technology" bit on the UNIVERSAL label)

Post: Where'd you find it? I've been looking for Universal to hit the shelves again since two years
ago when ADI announced their unscheduled "propellant burn event" ;) at the powder plant.
 
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No, does not seem to cause accuracy issues, I just don't like seeing disk of tan/orange all over inside my guns that I have to clean out (not just the barrels and chamber - it seems to get down in the actions, springs, etc). I do not have this issue with any other powder. It is very puzzling to me and rather annoying.

I want to find a use for it. I have settled on using it in 38 special loads just to use it up. I am just trying to find a solution to what I see as abnormal from my reloading experience. I have never used Unique, so I can not compare with that, but based on others that I do use, It seems to burn no cleaner or dirtier that I have seen (WSF, Bullseye, H110, RedDot, BlueDot, HS-6, 700-x, Herco).

I have better powders for everything it claims to do. I guess its called universal since it will do many different loads OK, but nothing really well (at least for me). Thanks for all the insight. I guess it is just something I have to live with until I have used it all up.
 
Whatcha worried about? A bit of residue or unburned powder in the barrel is of no concern. It gets pushed out by the next bullet without any problems.

Unburned powder is a clear sign of a load that is not reaching the level needed to consume all of it. OR it's burn rate is wrong for whatever load you're using it for.

I remember when clays was first introduced back in the 80's. It burned so darn clean in shotguns that you couldn't tell a freshly shot barrel in a O/U shotgun from one that was clean. Universal, and international clays was released after that to bring the same performance with a slightly slower burn rate. Regular clays was only good for standard trap/skeet velocities with 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge shells, uni. and int. could be used for handicap loads in 12 and some loads for 20 ga.
 
It is right next to Unique in the burn rate table...and yes, it is a little dirtier than some powders....and it varies by caliber whether its a little less dirty at the high end or the low end...and it seems to vary with a shorter vs a longer barrel as well ...

On the plus side..it meters very well, with some calibers it has a little wider variation of min and max that other powder options....

Its in such short supply - a partial 1 lb can of Universal...may get a trade of a full pound of something else, so if you don't like it, talk to the loaders in your area - you won't have any trouble getting rid of it ( especially to shotgunners ).

Yes, Hodgdon developed it for a wide range of applications in handguns and in shotguns.
 
I've used a lot of Universal, nearly as much as Unique. Look in your reloading manual and up your Universal charge, but stay below max. Some powders burn "dirty" if not used at their "optimum" level...
 
It does meter well. I do like that about it.

I do not personally know anyone else that reloads and I am not comfortable with listing it on Craigslist or such. I guess I will just have to suck it up and use it up playing with loads a bit more to see if I can achieve a better burn.
 
When Universal Clays hit the market, along with all the hoopla about its versatility, I played with it in 38 special loads. The goal, based on provided data, was to fire a 148 gr. hbwc at ~750 fps. Loaded a few, fired them, everything seemed fine, so I loaded a couple hundred for my wife to shoot in a league. They were quite accurate at 50', but at an indoor range with less than great lighting...I could see the bullets in flight! Yes, I do have good eyesight, but not that good, so out came the chronograph: barely breaking 500 fps. I'm sure the balance of that jug of powder is around somewhere, but its not been tempting me to use it.
 
I've used a lot of Universal and yes, you will see some unburned powder with it. It is a very good powder and I used to use it in 9mm until I couldn't get it anymore. (still have 2 lbs)
I bought half a case of BE-86 and started using it in 9mm and .357 magnum and the rest of the Universal is just sitting around gathering dust as is my Unique.
I doubt I will ever use the rest of the Universal or Unique. I like having one powder with all the good qualities of Universal, Unique, and Power Pistol without having all their extra baggage.
 
Use to be my go to shotgun powder before the shortage, when I ran out of Unique all my Universal was allocated to handguns as shotgun ammo seemed to remain abundant and prices didn't sky rocket. Since then I've discovered the merits of Universal as a pistol powder.
I use it primarily for .44 Mag. and .45 Colt and find that compared to Unique it meters better, provides equivalent accuracy and requires less powder for the same velocity.
 
I do not personally know anyone else that reloads and I am not comfortable with listing it on Craigslist or such. I guess I will just have to suck it up and use it up playing with loads a bit more to see if I can achieve a better burn.
Click to expand...
Universal is a good powder and it would be a sin to dispose of it just because it burns "dirty". It has only become popular in the last few years to want/need "cleaner burning powders". I have no idea how/where this started as I have never had a gun fail with "dirty" powder (excepting black powder of course!) and as far as I can remember my longest string w/o cleaning was approx. 500 rounds in a 1911 with reloads powered by Unique. Also have fired a few hundred rounds of .38/.357, .44 Special and Magnum, and 9mm before cleaning and have never had a failure to function. I don't shoot while wearing my white dinner jacket or my "Sunday-go-to-Meetin'" duds, and when I shoot indoors the range has a bathroom with soap and water. My shooting bag also contains wash cloths/rags and I can wipe down my guns if they start to look bad (soot on my SS revolvers, but rarely). When I shoot outdoors at my "unimproved" range I take water and paper towels and hand towels and can clean up when I'm done.

The only time I was bothered by "dirty, unburned powder" was when I reloaded some .38 Specials with 2400. Of course I got unburned powder spewing outta my revolver, but that wasn't the powder's fault (it burns quite cleanly in my .44 Magnums), it wasn't the appropriate use of that powder....

Actually, it's none of my business how you choose your components, or what you choose to do with them, just mumbling my experience/thoughts...:D
 
Universal has performed best for me when loaded at the hot end of the scale, and has not been consistent below the mid-range of published data. I would call it an excellent powder in 45 Auto for upper range loads.

If you have actually started with a perfectly clean gun and fired only hotter loads and found considerable residue, then I'd say you indeed have a very unusual case. If there's any chance even 1 or 2 low-end rounds were fired at any time during a shooting session, then I wouldn't conclude anything about the propellant in general.

I seriously doubt you're doing anything wrong, though, and my interim solution would be to put a nozzle on the air host and blow the gun out once in a while.
 
I am an avid fan of Universal... but the many pounds of it that I burn through is mostly in 9mm loads, and I don't have any problem with dirt, soot or unburnt flakes. I suppose this is because I'm running full loads and 9mm runs at nearly TWICE the pressure of .38 Special.

Yes, I definitely did make quite a number of different .38 loads with Universal, but no more and never again. Running .38 level loads in the big piece of brass at .38 pressures simply doesn't make for good loads with Universal.

The other place I do like to use Universal is in some medium .44 Mag loads, some cast lead bullet loads in .327 Federal and some very low-end .357 Mag loads.

As to the folks who claim that there is no harm in unburnt powder, I will definitely disagree. Throwing bits of it down range with EVERY SHOT on an indoor range is definitely a hazard -- if not for you personally, certainly for the place you like to shoot. But more hands-on and personal is the way a very nicely fitted quality revolver WILL act when an unburnt flake or two of powder finds it's way under the ejector. Had this happen to a very nice Model 19-4 and it had me baffled-- until I figured out what the problem actually was, I truly thought I had (somehow?!) wrecked a wonderful revolver.

If you don't believe me...
Pull one of your nice S&W revolvers out and drop a flake or two of Universal under the ejector and report back.
 
Quickload tells me that in 5" 38 Special @ nominal-pressure
125gr TMJ
Universal/5.5gr
16.8ksi/1,047fps
99.7% burn

So while there may a be flakes left in the barrel, it's certainly not
spitting gobs of powder out of the muzzle.

Meanwhile, a max'd out 357 Mag load of H110/W296 under a heavy
158gr JHP in the same 5" barrel only burns 75%**
And that's the darling load for most 357 aficionados.

So Unique/Universal's looking pretty good. ;)




** (Even a 20" carbine only burns 90%)
 
Please don't misunderstand, perhaps we are not using the same nomenclature, I am not saying this is a "dirty" powder. I don't really have an issues with that. My question revolves around "unburned" powder. To the point where there are many flakes untouched by ignition in every part of a gun it can manage to find its way into.

I have not had this issue with any other powder. My original intention was for this to be a 38 SPL powder, so that is were most of my experimenting has been. It appears that, based on responses, perhaps loads where the cases are more filled to capacity would be a better route.
I might have to work up heavy loads in 9mm and see if that solve the problem.

I was just wondering if this issue is unique to me or to the powder.
 
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