unintentionally pointing a loaded gun at somebody

W

Ward S

Moderator
i'm new to firearms and dont have as much experience as others on this board so this might seem like a dumb question but when i took my firearms safety course, we were told to never point a gun at anybody even with our finger off the trigger because of the risk of an accidental discharge. well, whats the difference between doing that and wearing a gun in a horizontal shoulder holster when somebody is behind you? the gun is also being pointed at then and the risk of an accidental discharge should be about the same. or, if i wear it on my hip and bend over to pick something up, the gun could be pointed at someone. i guess i dont understand why an accidental discharge is not considered in the latter examples.

thanks in advance to anyone who can clear this up for me.
 
The difference is that your hand is not on the gun. The 4 rules are there for your and others' safety. Every gun is always loaded, so don't point an 'unloaded' gun at anything you don't want to destroy either :).
 
As EricM said, the main difference is whether the gun is in your hand or not. To "point" a gun at someone means you are consciously pointing it at them in a manner such that it can cause harm if you were to fire it. Even if your finger isn't on the trigger, this can be extremely traumatic to them and can cause death, namely yours if you point it at the wrong person. Having a gun's barrel in alignment with someone is not at all the same thing.

Liken it to someone sitting behind the wheel of a car and revving the engine when you are directly in front of it as opposed to walking through a parking lot.
 
There's a large outdoors store nearby called Bass Pro Shop. They sell EVERYTHING, including scopes mounted on fake wood-stocks so you can see what it would be like if they were really mounted on a rifle.

In my opinion, about the WORST thing you can do is point one of those at a person. Now I KNOW that they are only SCOPES mounted on wood-stocks (no barrel), but it sure doesn't look like it from across the room. It's just plain RUDE. Makes you feel targeted.

OFF TANGANT

There's a sense of threat when a gun in a hand is being pointed at you. Hell, I just learned that it's a courtesy to take the mag out of a pistol when you enter a gun shop. I'd have NEVER thought of that... I mean it's a GUN STORE. You'd think they'd be used to loaded guns. ;) But respecting other people's wishes in their home, place of business, car, etc is key.

Never stop learning... and welcome to TFL,
Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
Like EricM said, the gun is in a holster as compared to you physically holding the gun.
Excluding several target guns, most handguns were designed to kill (people and animals)- so holding onto a handgun and pointing it at someone you don't intend to cause any harm to is just wrong, even if the clip is out and the chamber is empty.

So, basically- its just a "physical" thing- you make an interesting argument, but I can honestly say that I'm not sure I have ever heard of a situation where a holster was blamed for an accidental shooting- but I'm sure there have been.
 
Ward, welcome to TFL ... this is a fantastic place to learn about firearms.

Your question was answered well above ... the diff is that your hand is not on the firearm.

Another etiquette tip ... whenever someone hands a firearm to you, or when you pick one up, you always, always work the action to confirm it is not loaded. However, you still treat it as loaded, even after such confirmation, and follow the four basic safety rules. Don't worry about not knowing how to work the actions on all firearms - most people will be happy to show you ... just remember to practice safe muzzle control.

Welcome to the fascinating world of firearms, not to mention that obsolete concept ... freedom.

Regards from AZ
 
The reason not to point a loaded gun at anybody, is to save yourself from getting a major butt kicking. Some people I know will stick it down your drainpipe, and rightfully so. It is not polite, unsafe if not outright dangerous, and against the law.

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I don't have time for busy people
 
The Only time I have ever slapped Someone was when he asked me what the big deal was when He pointed his Loaded .44 Magnum Single Action at me on the shooting Range One day...... his excuse was "it wasn't even cocked so what are you worried abot ?!?"

I said "well I could not see the hammer from the way you where pointing it at me" at which point he scoffed at me..... he only scoffed for a second and then his head hit the ground.

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PROUD TO BE CANADIAN
 
"The 4 Rules" have been mentioned numerous times, but no one has posted them. So here they are. (Hey, he's a newbie, guys, so let's give him a little help, eh?)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
1) All guns are always loaded.

2) Never point the muzzle of a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

4) Never fire until you have verified your target and what is beyond it.[/quote]

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
I agree with all of the above. What I would add, though, is that when reholstering a gun you should be particularly careful.

I saw a photo of a cop friend of mine who shot a hole in his leg while reholstering a P7M8 (it's not that safe). The moral being, be careful who is around you (including yourself) when reholstering, whether loaded or not. This is particularly true with a horizontal shoulder holster with people behind you.
 
Ward, your question wasn't dumb. The only dumb questions are those that aren't asked. That said, this got me thinking and I really have a dumb question: has anyone heard of a round going off in a holster when the trigger WASN'T pulled? I think that maybe that's where Ward was going with his examples.
 
An observation;
People such as LEO'S and people that carry a lot,such as myself have to be very careful.We get careless because we allways have the gun on and forget the rules.

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beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben:
Hell, I just learned that it's a courtesy to take the mag out of a pistol when you enter a gun shop.
[/quote]

I would think that courtesy would have been to avoid handling your gun in the store. After all, you'd need to dump the magazine and empty the chamber and, to an obsever, that *could* look like getting ready to do damage.
 
The only people who are accidentally shot are the ones who thought the gun was empty. If you spend any time with guns you will most likely have a "negligent" discharge at some time in your life because you think the gun is not loaded. Hence the rule: Never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy. If you follow this rule, then even if it goes off (accidentally) you wont hurt anyone.
 
The point has been pretty well put that it's an absolute no no to point guns at anyone at anytime unless you intend to shoot them. Also make sure to keep your finger off the trigger unless you are going to fire the gun. A partner of mine was chasing a suspect and was hold his gun in the holster. He jumped off a loading dock and shot himself in the leg. It ended his career. You can never be too careful when it come to handling a weapon. Just my 2 cents worth

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***Torpedo***
Life is great if you can survive it!
 
I must amend #2 and #4:

#2 Never allow the muzzle to cover ... this includes unintentionally pointing

#4 .. and before the target. ("Sorry, I thought I could shoot over you when you were bent over picking up that brass")

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If the priority of the archive over witnes accounts is given up, history ceases to be a science and becomes an art.

http://www.ety.com/tell/why.html
 
Follow the four rules, and you'll be safe.

I will add, that "a holstered gun is a safe gun."

Firearms don't just "go off." You have to first violate one of the four rules.
 
I'm always amused by the G. Gordon Liddy wannabes who make sure everyone knows what tough customers they are.

"Yeah, some pi$$-ant punk swept me with his muzzle once. I shoved my foot so far up his a$$, his breath smelled like shoe polish." :rolleyes:
 
I saw, or rather heard, a holstered .357 go off with no hand on it. Was single action, pre safety bar. Owner wearin flack vest, parachute, seat belt, shoulder harness, survival vest etc. We figgured one of the straps pulled the hammer back far enough to rotate the cylinder to line up a live round then slipped off. Interesting to say the least, slug wandered around the bottom of armored seat then found a hole to go through for more mischief. No lasting damage. Couldn't happen but it did. We tried to simulate the happening but couldn't get to fire when we were tryin.

Sam.....my favorite 9mm is the 9X32
 
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