Understanding Firearm Laws is Daunting.

[Hitthespot]

I linger around here often but hadn't posted in years. I figure you all are more knowledgable than me, but I digress. I recently had an administrator help me correct my new email and password so I could once again participate.

The first thing I noticed when I got on was i had a message from a forum member. Apparently my last post a few years ago was about a couple of magazines i acquired and didn't know what they were. Another forum member answered my post and said if i had no use for them he could really use them.
I never seen his private message to me until a couple days ago. Since he was still active, (and me being the nice guy I am) I decided to message him, see if he still had the firearm ( apologize for taking years to answer) and see if he would like the magazines. He messaged me back saying he would still love to have them, though he had moved to a different state and gave me his address. I told him I would ship them the next day.

I packaged them up, went to my local UPS store. I was told no. We cannot ship magazines. I went to FED Ex. I was told no we cannot ship magazines. So I went on the internet and it said that The USPS would ship magazines but only domestically. So I went to the Post office in my city. Was told No. Next City, was told no.

How our laws have come to this, that you can't ship a couple of magazines, that I don't think have been made in years to a fellow forum member is crazy.

It was a daunting day.

P.S I apologize if this is the wrong section for this post.

 

[tangolima]

That's new to me. I bought magazines online quite recently, and there wasn't problem. I live in California and the magazine I bought must be compliant.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[natman]

Here's a link to the relevant Postal Regulations.

Nothing about magazines. At my post office all they ask about is the package fragile or hazardous.

 

[Webleymkv]

Did UPS, FedEx, and/or USPS ask you what, specifically, was in the package or did you volunteer that it was a firearm magazine? The last time I shipped a magazine it was a defective one that I returned to the manufacturer and I was emailed a pre-paid shipping label which I simply affixed to the box and took to the shipper (I think it was FedEx but I don't remember for sure). They asked the standard questions about hazardous materials, live animals, produce, etc. but never asked what, specifically, was in the box.

Now, there may be some state or local regulation that you're dealing with that doesn't apply to me in Indiana or, perhaps, it is the policy of the shippers rather than the law. I do know from experience shipping a handgun back to the manufacturer about two years ago that, while it isn't illegal for UPS and FedEx to accept shipment of a handgun from a non-FFL so long as it's being shipped to and FFL, they've changed their corporate policies to prohibit this which necessitated me seeking the service of a local gun shop to ship the handgun to the manufacturer for me (and paying a not insubstantial fee for the trouble ).

 

[Hitthespot]

UPS and Fed EX ask me what was in the package. I am not sure at the post office if
I asked or they asked me. Either way they would not ship it. I may print out the postal regulations and if asked see if that will help.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

UPS and Fed EX ask me what was in the package. I am not sure at the post office if I asked or they asked me. Either way they would not ship it. I may print out the postal regulations and if asked see if that will help.

The post office won't ask. They will ask if the package contains anything liquid, fragile, or hazardous. They may (and should) point to a poster that illustrates the kinds of things they are concerned with putting in the mail. Magazines are inert and non-hazardous. When the clerk asks if there is anything in the package that is ___, ___, or ___, the answer is "No."

If you want to insure the package, then they will ask more specifically what the contents are. Even then, firearms magazines are not prohibited. Heck, you can ship a complete rifle through the mail, as long as it's not loaded. Even if you're not an FFL.

 

[dogtown tom]

Hitthespot
....I packaged them up, went to my local UPS store. I was told no. We cannot ship magazines. I went to FED Ex. I was told no we cannot ship magazines.

Businesses can prohibit any item they want.

So I went on the internet and it said that The USPS would ship magazines but only domestically. So I went to the Post office in my city. Was told No. Next City, was told no.

1. No such prohibition on shipping magazines via USPS.
2. Counter clerks aren't experts on all things USPS.
3. Asking a question often gets an opinion, not facts.

 

[dogtown tom]

Hitthespot UPS and Fed EX ask me what was in the package. I am not sure at the post office if
I asked or they asked me. Either way they would not ship it. I may print out the postal regulations and if asked see if that will help.

Why are you asking anyone?
Package, weigh and print a label at USPS.com. Drop off at any post office.
Done.

 

[Hitthespot]

That was my intentions!

Thanks

 

[44 AMP]

There are several states that prohibit magazines by capacity. IF your friend is in one of those states now, he may not be legally allowed to receive it.

Best to have him check what the law is, where he is. IF he's not prohibited, box it and mail it.

ITs a spring loaded metal box (or maybe plastic) its not dangerous or hazardous under shipping regulations.

 

[Hitthespot]

Thanks everyone for the posts. I went and used the Self Help machine which listed all the things that cannot be shipped. Magazines wasn't one of them. I printed the postage, placed it on the package and threw it in the bin.

Hopefully all is good.

Thanks Everyone.

 

[Gelrir]

The local UPS shop, here in California about 3-4 years ago, told me to label a box of gun parts (not a complete gun or a magazine) as "machine parts". They hinted about the reason being to reduce theft during shipment.

 

[Nathan]

Nevermind, I’m not needed here.

 

[natman]

Additionally, UPS and FedEx have entered some agreement with the Democratic Party where they are blocking all unlicensed persons from shipping and requiring licensed folks to buy premium services.

Both UPS and FedEx have announced changes in their policies about shipping firearms. They now require that firearms only be shipped by Federal Firearms License holders (FFLs), to other FFLs.

This new policy comes after letters were sent from a group of Democratic senators to a variety of shipping companies, including UPS and FedEx.

https://www.markey.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/shipping_companies_security_on_gun_shipments_letters.pdf

The letters were signed by Senators Edward Markey (D-Mass.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Cory A. Booker (D-N.J.), Christopher S. Murphy (D-Conn.) and Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.).

In them they asked questions about shipping security and informed the companies of the following:

Under existing law, only licensed gun dealers and manufacturers — known as Federal Firearms Licenses (FFL) — can ship a firearm across state lines.

The problem is that it's not true. Existing law allows a non-licensee to ship interstate to a licensee or manufacturer.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A)] [emphasis added]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier

If these Senators think that making shipping a firearm more inconvenient and expensive will somehow reduce crime, then they should introduce legislation to change the law. If they can't get it passed, they should take the hint and let the matter drop, instead of strong arming shipping companies to change their policies and lying about the law to do it.

 

[Nathan]

If these Senators think that making shipping a firearm more inconvenient and expensive will somehow reduce crime, then they should introduce legislation to change the law. If they can't get it passed, they should take the hint and let the matter drop, instead of strong arming shipping companies to change their policies and lying about the law to do it.

Unfortunately, this is the way both sides are curbing our freedoms right now. If you don’t like it, strong arm them with the fear that the fes will be looking into their business. Even if they win, they are $millions in the hole over a percent or 2 of their business.

When did government become about scaring people into obedience of laws that don’t exist? I thought the worked for us? Since gun owners are a super majority and all..

 

[dogtown tom]

Gelrir The local UPS shop, here in California about 3-4 years ago, told me to label a box of gun parts (not a complete gun or a magazine) as "machine parts". They hinted about the reason being to reduce theft during shipment.

I ship guns via UPS/FedEx/USPS every week. For the last sixteen years.

Never once has FedEx or UPS made me label the contents. Thats because I use UPS.com.

The less interaction you have with humans= less chance someone will invent their own rules.

 

[dogtown tom]

Nathan I once had a USPS employee tell me that they could not ship my “other” receiver because it was a gun. I explained that it is an “other” now and coming back as a rifle.

He's correct, only licensed dealers and manufacturers can ship firearms other than rifles or shotguns. For the purposes of mailing, USPS classifies all firearms capable of being concealed on the body as "handguns". So.....firearm frames, receivers, silencers, SBS's, SBR's, barreled actions are not mailable. It been like that for at least the last sixteen years.

When I was clear it was a receiver, the boss assured me since it was only parts that I could ship however I wanted.

He was wrong. You violated USPS regulations and committed a violation of federal law.

I opened the regulations and requested the services I needed according to their policies. They had no clue. I spoke calmly with 3 levels of employees that had no clue.

Surprisingly, USPS counter clerks don't know every page of the Domestic Mail Manual. You shouldn't expect them to.
And you didn't know those policies either......if you did you would know what I wrote above.

Read this:How to ship firearms
Scroll down to the USPS link for USPS firearm regulations.

From what I get, some liberal writes these regs in DC.

Probably.

The local offices have little interest in furthering the gun control mantra.

They sure as heck do. I've had to educate a half dozen USPS employees on the legality of firearm shipments.

Additionally, UPS and FedEx have entered some agreement with the Democratic Party where they are blocking all unlicensed persons from shipping and requiring licensed folks to buy premium services.

Not just nonlicensees.
Licensed dealer and manufacturers must be enrolled in their "FFL Shipping Program".

To me this is just getting ahead of unlicensed persons using shipping services to prevent a mass outcry about these practices. They have no interest in limiting shipments, but I’m guessing maximizing the cost of shipments fits their business model. I’ll bet they still ship from the manufacturer for under $5 per gun. Doing this probably avoided regulation on the price fixing of retail services at such an extremely high rate.

Well........of course! Volume gets discounts.
If you ship one item a week, you aren't getting a discount. Ship ten a week and you will. Ship a hundred a week and you get a deeper discount. Ship a thousand guns a day? UPS lets you ignore some of those policies the small timers have to follow.

Think about how a company can ship you a 20lb large item with free shipping and you can return it on your own for over $100.

Free shipping means the price of the sale covers the expense of shipping. Shipping ain't free.

 

[44 AMP]

The rough thought train goes like this....

make everything having to do with guns, gun parts, ammunition, as expensive, complicated, and time consuming as possible = fewer people will bother with guns. The fewer people who bother with guns = fewer guns, and fewer guns =less crime, and being known for "doing something" about the problem = votes.

Trouble with that is it is a fantasy that doesn't work in the real world. The part about making things more expensive sort of works, but doesn't that discriminate against the low income people??

I think it does.

The basic fallacy is people who believe that inanimate objects are the root cause of a problem, NOT the behavior of people with such objects.

Criminal behavior with guns is the problem. Guns cause zero harm without a person being involved. And if the person has the intent to cause harm, no law will stop them.