(UK) Your Practical Guide to Crime Prevention

O

Oatka

New member
From the Home Office, in a land where all citizens are now safe because guns are banned.

Your Practical Guide to Crime Prevention

Too long to post in it's entirety, but here's the contents list, and a revealing snippet after that. Italics and bold mine.

Contents

Introduction
Personal Safety
Personal possessions
Racial harassment
Help for elderly people
Alcohol and drugs
Keeping your children safe
Out and about with your child
Looking after your Home
The things you own
Your community
Consumer power and crime prevention

---

Personal Safety:
How can you stay safe?
At home

. . .

If you wake to hear the sound of an intruder, only you can decide how best to handle the situation. You may want to lie quietly to avoid attracting attention to yourself, in the hope that they will leave. Or you may feel more confident if you switch on the lights and make a lot of noise by moving about. Even if you’re on your own, call out loudly to an imaginary companion – most burglars will flee empty-handed rather than risking a confrontation.
(evidently "hot burglaries" are no longer a problem) Ring the police as soon as it’s safe for you to do so. A telephone extension in your bedroom will make you feel more secure as it allows you to call the police immediately, without alerting the intruder.
Draw your curtains after dark and if you think there is a prowler outside – dial 999.
(and pray)

Out and about
If you often walk home in the dark, get a personal attack alarm from a DIY store . . . Carry it in your hand so you can use it immediately to scare off an attacker. Make sure it is designed to continue sounding if it’s dropped or falls to the ground. (so the police can home in on your body)

ad nauseum



[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
So, basically, the government is telling its subj... er, "Citizens" that, should an intruder be discovered within the walls of their home in the middle of the night to just bend over and think happy thoughts?

Note: If in the UK, you find the aforementioned goblin in your living-room, do not pick up the fireplace poker and whale the living tar out of them. That is considered "assault".

This would be funny, if it weren't so sad...

------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
Reminds me of the saying by I think Roy Innis, U.S. Congress Of Racial Equality Leader ?

"If you are not willing to fight for your home, what will you fight for ?"

If the UK Gov can convince it's subjects [yes they are subjects, it is the United Kingdom, still] to accept criminal actions in their own homes.

I doubt there will be interest in "feeding the tree of Liberty" for an intangible concept like freedom.

So I nominate: The 2000 George Orwell Awards-Joseph Gobbels trophy for excellence in mass mind control [without drugs catergory] to the English public service.

[This message has been edited by JoshM75 (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
And in sharp contrast, how the well armed US citizen is advised by the State of Tennessee Police Department to defend him/herself.
http://farad.xtn.net/virtual/mainmenu/btpd/oc.html

Outsmarting Crime
A personal guide to safer living.

If you are concerned, it might be a good idea to carry a whistle in a handy spot. If you are being bothered or feel you may be attacked, blow on it in repeated bursts and sit down on the ground (to reduce the chance of getting knocked down) unless, of course, you can get to a safer place, such as a place of business nearby.

Weapons

Don't carry them. They can too easily be turned against you.

What to Do If...

If you are experiencing a crime, you are going to have to use your own best judgment in handling the situation. Our general advice covering most circumstances is:

Don't attempt to resist or to attack
Try to avoid being injured
Don't carry any weapons
If you return to your residence and suspect someone is inside, don't go in! Go to a neighbor's place and call the police.

If you are in bed and a burglar enters your residence, stay as quiet as possible and call the police at the first safe opportunity.

If the burglar does not leave, keep as calm as possible under the circumstances. The burglar probably is nervous because of your presence. Try not to escalate the situation or provoke the burglar into injuring you. Avoid confrontation.

Do discreetly observe the burglar and try to remember the description, including age, height, weight, color and length of hair, skin color, clothing, etc. This information will be vital to the police in catching this person.

------------------------------------------
If you can hear something, it's the sound of me laughing alllllll the waaaaay over here. You need a Brit in this forum to give you lot some perspective. BTW if you need any more links to US "Bend Over For The Nice Burglar" police instruction sheets let me know, there were hundreds of them, this just happened to be my favorite.

Mike H


[This message has been edited by Mike H (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
For the sake of debate,
Perspective:

Were I to encounter the boogieman within my domicile this evening, and shoot him with a handgun, I'd be betting my immortal soul that not a jury in Georgia would convict. Heck, as far as criminal charges go, I sincerely doubt one would face any. (I am, after all, living twenty miles from where a Grand Jury refused to indict a store owner for killing a burgler. With a shotgun. In the back of the melon. Through the rear window of the getaway car. I believe a gentleman in the UK recently attempted to defend his property with a shotgun, also. How'd that play out again?)

I am about to depart for the grocery store to fetch dinner for myself and my beau. Not that I expect to need it, I am (as per custom) tossing a loaded pistol on the front seat of my car. Even if I didn't have a permit, the state of Georgia says this is perfectly legal to do.

I'd be interested in the legality of exactly parallel situations in the UK.
------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 25, 2000).]
 
Mike H: Are you honestly trying to compare the State of Tennessee, which is a shall-issue carry state to the UK ?

Interestingly your post web address for the "State of Tennessee Police Department" was written by the "Maryland Community Crime Prevention Instiute" and did not mention any L.E. dept's in it's resource list/contact list.

There is a massive difference between the British Home Office [an official National Gov dept] and the "Maryland Community Crime Prevention Instiute" [whoever they are].


[This message has been edited by JoshM75 (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
Tamara,

You place far greater trust in your "pay 'n play" justice system than I would - remember OJ ? or conversely the 7 out of 14 recent Illinois death penalty convictions that were completely overturned on their first appeal. If you want to trade anecdotes, no problem. I just got through reading a US crime report where a guy was attcked and stabbed in the stomach, he retrieved the knife from his gut and then stabbed his attacker with it, he was duly sentenced to hard time for ADW because the jury decided that once he was in possession of the knife, the threat to his life had ended. I would like to think that there wasn't a jury in the UK that would convict me under such circumstances.

Much has been made both here and in the US of the recent Tony Martin (farmer kills burglar with shotgun) incident. Do I think he should have been jailed morally - NO, do I think he should have been jailed purely from a legal aspect - regrettably YES. He illegally procured a pump action shotgun having had his permit revoked (something very serious has to occur for a farmer to have his shotgun permit cancelled), then he stood up in a town meeting and proclaimed that he was "going to kill some bastard gypsies", then later he does just that and flees the scene to go into hiding. Later in court, forensic evidence showed that he was sitting in the dark on his staircase when he shot the intruder and was not lying in bed as he claimed. I'm sorry but the guy hung himself, contrary to popular belief people have occasionally used shotguns to defend themselves here quite legally in the past, Mr.Martin should not be in jail, if he had told the truth in court and had kept his mouth shut prior to the shooting he probably wouldn't be.

Josh

Does it matter who wrote the advice sheet initially. Surely, by posting it on their web page as official, the Bristol, Tennesse Police Department make it their advice too ? Or are you suggesting they did it just for a laugh. Anyways, like I said before, there were countless other police sites saying the same kind of thing, it was the reference to using a whistle and lying down so you couldn't be knocked down that amused me so much, shall issue state or not. Also, do you really think that the UK Home Office prepared their own statement, most of them can't type, it was doubtless prepared by some lefty "be nice to criminals" think tank.

Suffice to say with all these "look at the crazy British situation" postings, there really isn't that much that separates the 2 countries, much as that may cause you to bite into your collective keyboards, that from someone who has spent a lot of time in both countries, with all due respect I doubt most of you have ever even been to the UK, and if you have it was no doubt to London (spit). For every apparent stupidity of our system, I can easily find a similar case in the US system. With respect, your problem isn't how big that perceived gap is, rather the fact that it's getting narrower.

Go Bush etc etc

Mike H
 
Been to the UK. Never further south than Newcastle, sorry.

Apparently you may need to study our "pay for play" justice system some more if you think that anything that happens in a State or County courtroom in LA or Illinois has anything to do with say, Georgia or Tennessee. That is one of the nice things about this place, after all. If I thought strict laws and socialist gov't policies appealed to me, I could move to, say Massachussetts and not even need a passport to do so. Conversely, I could stay in a state that recently passed a law that the pro-gun-control media decried as a "make my day" law, whereby if I am the victim of an attempted carjacking or there's an intruder in my home at night, my state government has told me that it's fine by them if I blaze away...

------------------
"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
 
Official "advice" from the Bristol Co Police Dept website [or others] hardly "holds water" in comparison to actual Tenn State [or numerous other states]law, e.g. Right to carry, no retreat required, etc.

Quote: With respect, your problem isn't how big that perceived gap is, rather the fact that it's getting narrower.

While I agree anti's are on the march everywhere. When it comes to personal defence from criminal action the USA is far more "enlightened", especially considering the CCW State reform movement in the past 10-15 years. In this regard the UK is getting left well behind [or vice/versa if your anti gun].

Mike H, you yourself stated [previous post]that UK handgun shooters were seen in the same vein as child abusers and that's just for target shooting [or was]. Imagine proposing U.S. style CCW in UK now.

[This message has been edited by JoshM75 (edited October 25, 2000).]
 
That is why I love Oklahoma.

Ka-Chink.

Boom.

One less dredge in society to go thru a soft legal system, be released early and back to commiting crimes again!

In Oklahoma, If someone enters your home illegaly you are entitled to user any force up to deadly force needed to render your own saftey. Not that I would outright attempt to kill the bastard, Im more interested in disabling him for life. :D

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Try to take away my gun...and you will see my 2nd Amendment Right in ACTION!!! -Me

The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crime. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson
 
Mike H,
I live in New Jersey, considered by some as one of the most Socialist, Anti gun States in the Union. I'm currently reviewing Sections 2C:3-1 through 2C:3-7 of New Jersey Criminal Code, titled "General Principles of Justification (Self-Defense)", and guess what?

A New Jersey Resident is Justified by law, in using force or deadly force (1) for self protection, (2) to protect another person,(3)in defense of premises or personal property, or (4) "when the actor reasonably believes his conduct to be required or authorized to assist a public officer in the performance of his duties" 2C:3-3c.(2).

Force or deadly force may be used against an intruder when "(a) The actor reasonably believed that the intruder would inflict personal injury upon the actor or OTHERS IN THE DWELLING; or (b) the ACTOR DEMANDED THAT THE INTRUDER DISARM, SURRENDER OR WITHDRAW, AND THE INTRUDER REFUSED TO DO SO." The same section also states that the resident may use force "without retreating, surrendering possession, withdrawing...".

Under Section 2C:3-5 a NJ resident may enter his neighbor's home, and use force or deadly force to defend said neighbor. "(3) Neither the actor nor the person whom he seeks to protect is obliged to retreat when in the other's dwelling to any greater extent than in his own."

Use of force is legal to protect property, and there are even circumstances when deadly force would be legal.

The point being, that even in one of the most repressive of the States, Citizens still have the legal right to defend life, family, neighbors, and property, with force and deadly force. Can you say the same about England?
 
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