(UK) Guns blow a hole in the argument

Oatka

New member
Note - this is a Brit newspaper talking, which explains the "Guns easy to obtain" quote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000141109560173&rtmo=aqBC5dWJ&atmo=99999999&pg=/et/00/6/29/wcrim129.html

Guns blow a hole in the argument
By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor

US newsman says Britain is riddled with crime

THERE was much indignation yesterday about the claim by CBS News. Believe it or not, Dan Rather is right.
There are many more burglaries and thefts in Britain than America and, according to the most recent figures comparing rates across the industrialised world, "contact" crime is higher here. This includes assaults, robberies and rapes.

The 1996 victimisation survey, conducted before big falls in American crime, showed the risk of contact crime as higher in England and Wales than anywhere else. Statistics can mask reality. Robberies in America are much more likely to be at gunpoint, which is one reason why the murder rate is much higher. The main reason for a much lower burglary rate in America is householders' propensity to shoot intruders. They do so without fear of being dragged before courts and jailed for life.

If American tourists coming to Britain are frightened of being murdered, a rare crime in any case, it is much less likely to happen in London than in any American city. But if they fear being assaulted, robbed or otherwise manhandled, it is more common here than in most of America, outside the city ghettoes that most law-abiding people avoid.

The most recent crime statistics from the Home Office show that in 1998 there were 963 offences of violence against the person for every 100,000 people in Britain. In America, according to Bureau of Justice figures for the same year, the rate was 566 per 100,000 inhabitants.

The trend in America is down while in Britain, as the latest crime figures will show next month, it is up. Violent crime has risen more than 10 per cent. Despite recent big falls in American murders, the rate remains the biggest difference between the two countries. Murder is the most likely cause of death in young men, who are 50 times more likely to be killed in Washington than in London, mainly because guns are so easy to obtain.

A criminal is six times more likely to be jailed in America. It has more than 1.8 million prisoners, at 645 per 100,000 population, second only to Russia. The rate in England and Wales is 120 per 100,000, the second highest in the European Union behind Portugal.

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2000.
 
This tid bit of info is sure to go into my growing collection of progun rhetoric.

thanks for the info




[This message has been edited by akira (edited June 29, 2000).]
 
Toy Guns Benifical

The people who study that sort of thing in England have discovered that, for young males, playing with toy guns, formerly having been made taboo, "causes a decline in agressive behavoir"

See page 10, 1 July issue of Gun Week.



[This message has been edited by alan (edited June 29, 2000).]
 
I'm surprised this has taken so long for people to cotton on to. I've been writing about this for about 3 years now. They keep harping on in the UK press that the murder rate in the US is higher. It isn't the difference in the two figures owes more to the respective agendas of our two Governments and the way they "compile" the statistics.

Remember there are lies, damn lies and Government statistics.

------------------
"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).
 
When it is going to sink into the heads of the national media (here and there) that what is happening has nothing to do with the "Brady Law" or the "assualt weapons ban" - what's really going on is this:

1. Violent ("contact") crime has dropped dramatically since 1996 in the U.S. BECAUSE that's when many states passed CCW laws, and several states that adopted CCW laws in the early 90s began to issue large amounts of permits by the mid-'90s. 31 of 50 states had "shall-issue" laws by 1997.

2. Those same crime have increased dramatically in the UK and Australia since 1996, when those countries began passing ever-tighter gun control schemes after Dunblane and Tasmania.

DUH factor high.
 
Same subject, different tack:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>© Associated Newspapers Ltd.

UK more violent than US
by Jeremy Campbell in Washington

American TV audiences are being told that Britain is today a more violent society than the US.

In an extraordinary turnaround of every traditional attitude and statistic, the flagship CBS TV News proclaims this country as "one of the most violent urban societies in the western world".

By every measure of violent crime save murder, claims the CBS report, American visitors to Britain are coming to a more dangerous society than their own.

Legendary Seven O'Clock news anchor Dan Rather plainly found it hard not to crow: "This summer," he said, "thousands of Americans will travel to Britain expecting a civilised island free from crime and ugliness. And in many ways it is that. But now, like the US, the UK has a crime problem. And believe it or not, except for murder, theirs is worse than ours."

British crime expert Roger Graef says the American version is wholly exaggerated - although American crime figures had dropped recently, the individual was much more at risk in the US than in Britain.

But US government statistics seem to support the CBS claim in some areas, such as burglary, and it obviously threatens damage to Britain's image in the vital US tourist market. In the CBS report, correspondent
Tom Fenton told the audience to forget the familiar clichés about this country.

"At first sight, England is a green and pleasant land" - cue the banshee scream of a British ambulance - "but in reality, it is one of the most violent urban societies in the western world.

"The violence of British soccer fans is the most familiar." Cue British louts bashing each other over the heads with chairs. "But that is only the tip of the iceberg. The streets and shopping malls of Britain are a
battleground."

Viewers were then treated to the sight of neanderthals with shaved heads yelling "I will hurt you, I will hurt you" in an unnamed public space.

"Believe it or not," Mr Fenton went on, "your chances of being assaulted, or robbed or burgled for that matter, are substantially
greater here in England and Wales than in the US."

It was a travel agent's nightmare. Mr Fenton did not shrink from shocking a US audience that had spent its whole life supposing politeness, good manners and playing by the rules are the abiding British character traits.

The CBS item comes after reports that a US teacher has apparently become the latest rape victim after an encounter with a stranger at Euston Station.

The 30-year-old married woman realised she had been raped after waking up in an unknown flat in Brixton on Sunday morning. The man spilled a drink on her at the Burger King restaurant in the station.

She remembers travelling on a Tube train with him, but has no recollection of anything after that. She was also covered in cuts and
bruises.

Saba Salman writes: Jack Straw will today urge the use of "behaviour orders" to tame drunken teenage troublemakers and "neighbours from hell", urging police to issue them if councils do not.

The Home Secretary, faced with a continued reluctance from local authorities to use the anti-social behaviour orders, will tell the
annual Local Government Association conference that police can issue orders without council approval.[/quote]

An "anti-social behaviour order"??? What calibre do they come in?? :D

B
 
Ah, merry olde, and quite, quite civilized England ... where they've taken firearms from the peasants, and the brutes once more rule the land.

That is the 'civilized' world of the anti-self defense gun bigots. Remove the firearms, and thus, physical, brutish force prevails again.

Even idiots should eventually figure this one out.

Regards from AZ
 
My brother, an experienced traveler, was mugged in the London Underground. He's never been assaulted anywhere else in the world, not in Russia, not in New York, not even in D.C., where he works.

Anyway, IMO the increasing crime level in the UK is basically a breakdown of civil order due to the disempowerment of the citizenry. It's another indication of the UK's slide into the Third World.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oatka:
The main reason for a much lower burglary rate in America is householders' propensity to shoot intruders. They do so without fear of being dragged before courts and jailed for life.
[/quote]


BBBWWWWWWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :D :D :D

(but seriously...)

------------------

~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Yet more Brit fixation, who cares what their crime rate is. You know there really are more than 2 countries on the planet.

Mike H
 
from the article Oatka posted -

"Murder is the most likely cause of death in young men, who are 50 times more likely to be killed in Washington than in London, mainly because guns are so easy to obtain."

I presume the writer was referring to D.C, a jurisdiction very much like England with its tough restrictions on private firearm (and even knife, or so I here) ownership/ carrying.

Haven't gun and bomb crimes in England also been escalating these past few years?
Jeff
 
Since the new firearm laws were enacted in Swizterland which reduced
the number of carry permits by at least 80%, robberies and violent
crime have gone up.

A close friend of actually almost got mugged. What the muggers didn't
quite realize until far too late that she was out with her two dogs.

And no, she isn't raising chihuahuas or other rabbit-look-alikes. :)
 
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