Typical male view...
- Thread starter JMF0486
- Start date
Typical male answer is different tools for different jobs. Except the butter knife which can be used for anything even to spread butter. 
there is no easy answer your question isnt super clear but this site may help. http://www.theboxotruth.com/. Or smaller (less grains) faster = more penetration BUT NOT ALWAYS. Lots of what if . . . . . .
there is no easy answer your question isnt super clear but this site may help. http://www.theboxotruth.com/. Or smaller (less grains) faster = more penetration BUT NOT ALWAYS. Lots of what if . . . . . .yea i guess that was a pretty broad question. Alright how about for deer?? i had some of my friends telling me to shoot 180gr+ and some telling me that, that was unnecessary and to stick with 150gr round. So me not knowing a whole lot about hunting/rifles/ammunition/etc... this last yr, i just went with a 165gr round and called it good. But i would like some clarification to exactly what would be better in "for now just say whitetails"....
The more grains, the heavier the bullet. In some instances, you may need a heavier bullet in order to insure better penetration and a quicker kill, such as when taking large or dangerous game like elk, moose, bear, etc. In other situations, you want a lighter bullet for a faster, flatter trajectory and/or when penetration isn't needed or wanted, such as when hunting smaller game animals like coyotes or varmints.
The weight of the bullet can also affect the bullet's ballistic coefficient, or BC. This is the measure of the bullet's ability to overcome air resistance in flight, and is usually calculated by dividing the mass with the bullet's diameter squared that it presents to the airflow divided by a dimensionless constant i that relates to the aerodynamics of its shape..
To put it simply, a heavier bullet is generally longer and more spear like, which will buck the wind better and fly flatter than a bullet that is shorter, lighter and closer to a ball or square shape. In addition, it will usually penetrate better.
However, a heavier bullet also means higher recoil.
The bullets BC and weight can also affect accuracy; if the rifle's barrel has too slow or too fast a twist rate to stabilize a bullet of that size properly, it will not group well and will generally be inaccurate, though this does not seem to be a hard and fast rule; some calibers seem to be more tolerant of over/understabalization than others, and it can very from rifle to rifle.
The weight of the bullet can also affect the bullet's ballistic coefficient, or BC. This is the measure of the bullet's ability to overcome air resistance in flight, and is usually calculated by dividing the mass with the bullet's diameter squared that it presents to the airflow divided by a dimensionless constant i that relates to the aerodynamics of its shape..
To put it simply, a heavier bullet is generally longer and more spear like, which will buck the wind better and fly flatter than a bullet that is shorter, lighter and closer to a ball or square shape. In addition, it will usually penetrate better.
However, a heavier bullet also means higher recoil.
The bullets BC and weight can also affect accuracy; if the rifle's barrel has too slow or too fast a twist rate to stabilize a bullet of that size properly, it will not group well and will generally be inaccurate, though this does not seem to be a hard and fast rule; some calibers seem to be more tolerant of over/understabalization than others, and it can very from rifle to rifle.
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I've taken most of my deer with a 100 grain bullet from a .250 Savage. Many were dropped on the spot where fired on. Two went 100 yards, or so. A couple covered 30 or 40 yards.
It's shot placement and bullet construction that matters most.
In the .30-06 and .308 I prefer 150 grain bullets. A friend uses 180 grain .30-06s on deer and I've been less than impressed with the amount of damage done on his deer and the amount of ground they often cover before piling up.
Another friend's relative lost a nice buck after shooting it with a 220 grain from his .30-06. That bullet is made for elk and bears not for deer. I doubt if it opened up at all passing through that whitetail buck.
It's shot placement and bullet construction that matters most.
In the .30-06 and .308 I prefer 150 grain bullets. A friend uses 180 grain .30-06s on deer and I've been less than impressed with the amount of damage done on his deer and the amount of ground they often cover before piling up.
Another friend's relative lost a nice buck after shooting it with a 220 grain from his .30-06. That bullet is made for elk and bears not for deer. I doubt if it opened up at all passing through that whitetail buck.
May I assume you are shooting a .308,or a 30-06? I did not notice that info.
The difference between a 150 gr and a 180 gr bullet,is not a lot.30 gr of lead.A .22 short bullet.Because folks argued,or wondered,about the choice,Solomon himself created the 165 gr bullet.
All of them will do a perfectly wonderful job of making venison.
It then becomes shades of grey and preferences.
At reasonable ranges,of maybe 300 yds or less,on a deer class target,it just does not matter much.
The difference between a 150 gr and a 180 gr bullet,is not a lot.30 gr of lead.A .22 short bullet.Because folks argued,or wondered,about the choice,Solomon himself created the 165 gr bullet.
All of them will do a perfectly wonderful job of making venison.
It then becomes shades of grey and preferences.
At reasonable ranges,of maybe 300 yds or less,on a deer class target,it just does not matter much.
HoraceHogsnort
New member
HiBC wrote: "May I assume you are shooting a .308,or a 30-06? I did not notice that info. The difference between a 150 gr and a 180 gr bullet,is not a lot.30 gr of lead.A .22 short bullet.Because folks argued,or wondered,about the choice,Solomon himself created the 165 gr bullet. All of them will do a perfectly wonderful job of making venison. It then becomes shades of grey and preferences. At reasonable ranges,of maybe 300 yds or less,on a deer class target,it just does not matter much."
You need to check out post #7.
You need to check out post #7.
So outside of personal preference, and size of game. the farther the distance the higher the grain you want??? or am i completely missing what you guys have been saying?? Sorry im pretty new at this whole thing. im used to just getting 556 or 762 and goin from there. or my 60mm or 81mm mortars. but thanks for the helpful info so far even if im not understanding it correctly.
JMF
JMF
Can someone also tell me what the difference uses to different bullets are. Not sure if i asked that question right but like ballistic tips, etc.. I have no clue about any of that either. A round was always just a round to me, didnt realize that there were so many different types and uses for each.
JMF
JMF
Rangefinder
New member
Not necessarily true. It comes down to bullet performance and intended use. I use a 90gr FMJ/BT in 6mm for 1000 meter shooting with near-surgical accuracy. But for hunting I use a 105gr. Speer soft-point in the same rifle. Two bullets of different design, and they both work extremely well for their intended use, but aren't meant to cross over. Choose the bullet meant for the purpose you intend to apply it to.
Rangefinder
New member
Unfortunately, I can't help much in way of reading material. Most of what I know I learned from experience. My suggestion is to experiment. Get out on the range and test different things. Play with distance. Play with different weights and designs of bullets and velocity effects. Do accuracy tests. do expansion and deflection tests (there are a lot of different things you can use that work and are less expensive than ballistic gel). The best lessons are those learned through experience.
"Check post # 7"
I did.It said most of his deer were taken with a .250 Savage,a fine deer cartridge.Indicates a well placed bullet is more important than whether it is 150 or 180.
There was another comment that the 180 gr was more destructive,yet the deer traveled farther.
Could be a sample size issue.Larger wound channel does not add up to deer traveling farther.
Agreed,bullet construction matters.The OP is discovering that.
I still say 150,165,180,each have a slight edge toward a characteristic that may be prefered,but on a 300 yd or less deer from a 308/30-06;All will do just fine.A Tueday deer will present a different shot than a Monday deer.On any day,the slight advantage could go to any of them.
Placement and construction are far more significant.
I did.It said most of his deer were taken with a .250 Savage,a fine deer cartridge.Indicates a well placed bullet is more important than whether it is 150 or 180.
There was another comment that the 180 gr was more destructive,yet the deer traveled farther.
Could be a sample size issue.Larger wound channel does not add up to deer traveling farther.
Agreed,bullet construction matters.The OP is discovering that.
I still say 150,165,180,each have a slight edge toward a characteristic that may be prefered,but on a 300 yd or less deer from a 308/30-06;All will do just fine.A Tueday deer will present a different shot than a Monday deer.On any day,the slight advantage could go to any of them.
Placement and construction are far more significant.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Regardless of cartridge or bullet weight, there is no "always" when a deer is hit--even for heart shots. Sometimes they fall and don't get back up and run. Sometimes they fall, get back up and run a fairly short distance. And then there are stories of a heart-shot deer that ran a long way.
So, it's all about "generally" or "mostly".
Something to consider is that for small-diameter bullets such as the .223 or .243, the heavier bullets are better for deer. For the .223, a 70-grain bullet is more effective in controlled expansion than the bullets which are 55 grains in weight or even lighter. In the .243, 100-grain bullets are generally preferred to those of 85 grains or less.
This begins to change a bit as you get up to thirty-caliber. Commonly used bullets range in weight from 110 and 125 grains (primarily for varmints) through 150 and 165 grains (common for deer) and then mostly 180s for elk. Other weights on up to 220 and 230 grains are available but less commonly used for hunting.
Weight vs. distance is of more importance to target shooters than hunters. Hunters rarely shoot at deer or elk beyond 300 to 400 yards. Target shooters may need to deal with much longer distances.
Enough elementary-school primer for now...
So, it's all about "generally" or "mostly".
Something to consider is that for small-diameter bullets such as the .223 or .243, the heavier bullets are better for deer. For the .223, a 70-grain bullet is more effective in controlled expansion than the bullets which are 55 grains in weight or even lighter. In the .243, 100-grain bullets are generally preferred to those of 85 grains or less.
This begins to change a bit as you get up to thirty-caliber. Commonly used bullets range in weight from 110 and 125 grains (primarily for varmints) through 150 and 165 grains (common for deer) and then mostly 180s for elk. Other weights on up to 220 and 230 grains are available but less commonly used for hunting.
Weight vs. distance is of more importance to target shooters than hunters. Hunters rarely shoot at deer or elk beyond 300 to 400 yards. Target shooters may need to deal with much longer distances.
Enough elementary-school primer for now...
Geautide,on what the is that.?
Its just not that hard.One person may have a preference for high vel,flat trajectory.the 3000fps barrier may be really important to them.OK,fine.Shoot a 150 gr bullet.It will work fine.It will shoot fast.it will kill deer.Be happy.
If someone wants a theoretically more efficient shape,blah blah,whatever reason they want a 165,by golly,a 30=06 with a 165 will kill deer just fine.use it,Be Happy!!
If someone thinks he wants one gun one load always sighted in and likes 180 gr bullets because sometimes he hunts elk or likes the wind characteristics or whatever preference is in that riflemans mind for whatever reason,a 180 gr bullet will be perfectly fine for shooting a deer.
It just does not matter.Do what makes you happy.None of them is wrong.
FWIW(not much) the last deer I shot with a 30 cal was hit with a 200 gr Accubond,MV of 2900 fps.High lung shot,ribs to ribs,modest wound channel.Dropped in its tracks without taking a step.
With that rifle,if I was shooting prairie dogs,I would use 200 gr AccuBonds.
Its just not that hard.One person may have a preference for high vel,flat trajectory.the 3000fps barrier may be really important to them.OK,fine.Shoot a 150 gr bullet.It will work fine.It will shoot fast.it will kill deer.Be happy.
If someone wants a theoretically more efficient shape,blah blah,whatever reason they want a 165,by golly,a 30=06 with a 165 will kill deer just fine.use it,Be Happy!!
If someone thinks he wants one gun one load always sighted in and likes 180 gr bullets because sometimes he hunts elk or likes the wind characteristics or whatever preference is in that riflemans mind for whatever reason,a 180 gr bullet will be perfectly fine for shooting a deer.
It just does not matter.Do what makes you happy.None of them is wrong.
FWIW(not much) the last deer I shot with a 30 cal was hit with a 200 gr Accubond,MV of 2900 fps.High lung shot,ribs to ribs,modest wound channel.Dropped in its tracks without taking a step.
With that rifle,if I was shooting prairie dogs,I would use 200 gr AccuBonds.
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