Two questions ........

M

Miss Demeanors

New member
All this Halloween candy is keeping me up till weeeee hours of the night and what better to do than think of guns. :) This question came to mind last night and I was just wondering what you all would do. What if a BG breaks in your house, he gets in before you realize he is in, you get your gun out but HE has a gun also. Then what? I know that sounds stupid but I want to learn everything possible before I get one myself. That idea crossed my mind and I really dont know what I would do if that happened.

Also, after thinking I tried reading. I was reading that American Rifleman (more guns :)) and saw this article about something called 'low recoil shotshells'. I read about them but was wondering if anyone tried them and if there is any difference from regular ones. :)

So that's my questions for the day! :)

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I am now an NRA member! :)
 
The probability that BG is armed is why I would start firing as soon as a threat was obvious and not stop firing until the threat either went away or I got to my rifles...then continue with them. Even if BG is not armed, given the extremely short ranges in my apartment anyone there w/o my permission and invitation is assumed to be a possible threat.

As for "low-recoil" shells, they are either low-power birdshot or buckshot vith fewer pellets than usual. I suspect the velocity of thaose pellets is the same as in heavier loads.
 
Miss D:

A lot of possible variables here, but assuming that the BG doesn't know how the inside of your home is laid out, you have a distinct advantage.

My advice, take a position which offers cover and concealment (in a position to defend others in your home, if that is the case)...wait for BG to show themself...blast them. If there is time, some advise calling 911 and letting them know what is going on, then leaving the receiver off the hook so they can hear. If you want to yell "...drop the gun..." to the intruder and give them a chance to comply, it's your decision. Check what the law requires in your state. IMO, if they're in my home, carrying a firearm, they're dead meat.

Best,
Mike
 
In such a circumstance, you should stay in your safe room (usually your bedroom) Call the police ASAP on a cell phone (lines to your house for your regular phone may be cut)
Since most BG's breaking in are punks and not actively looking for gun fight, announce that you are armed and have called the police. In most cases they will abscram- If the BG is armed, he probably is a amatuer is nervous and has armed himself for his own protection. I always liked the scene in Ferris Buehler's Day Off when his sister detects an intruder in the house and announces that "I just want to let you know that I am armed and have a raging case of herpes.." :)

If you live in a two story house you may, if possible move quitely to a position that will allow you to cover the stairway. Not only will this protect your family, it gives you a very nasty kill-zone that the BG must enter.

On the low recoil shotgun shells, I have only used the Federal and Winchester law enforcement type buckshot rounds. There is a noticeable difference in recoil. Follow-up shots are much quicker. Penatration is about the same, mainly because the low recoil loads use copper plated lead shot that doesn't deform as easy when hitting the target.

[This message has been edited by RCH (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
That's a good question MissD.

SInce there is no way to adequately predict the thousands of variables in this situation I will apply 2 simple rules:

1) Always have a gun handy in the house.

2) Be proficient and therefore comfortable with the firearm.

You would be amazed at how many gunfights end up with 2 empty guns and not a single hit. If the bullets start to fly, you want to be sure that you score the only hits.

Practice, practice, practice.

CMOS

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Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.
 
If possible, get some dogs (from the shelter!). An active intruder-alert/deterence system that still works when the power goes out. I have 15 dogs, some inside the house, some out in the dog lot. NO-ONE comes to my house without my knowing it. It helps if they aren't socialized too well. That doesn't mean they're bad with childern, necessarily, just that they don't like strangers. Some dogs will walk up to anyone and go belly up in submission. Not too threatening. If you live in a rental, dogs may not be possible, though.

The "safe room" is a good idea; one room in your residence that a BG isn't likely to get into first, with the necessary tools: guns, flashlight, cell phone, etc... The bedroom is a good place, since that's where you'll be in the middle of the night, and most vulnerable to intruders. Any room that's readily accessible to you in an emergeny can be made less intruder friendly (re-inforced locking doors and windows).

The laws vary from state to state as to what you must do before being justified in shooting an intruder. New Jersey, I believe, requires you to shout a warning and give the BG a chance to desist. I think some states may even require you to flee your own home. My rule is, if the BG is armed with a gun, he will be shot without warning. I think of the applicable laws only after I consider how best to survive the situation at hand. But there are no such laws in NC, that I've been able to find. :)

I've used the Federal low-recoil shotshells. It's nine pellets of buckshot, which is the norm, but with a weaker powder charge. I went back to full power shotgun loads because, well...I like them. :)

Oh yeah...dogs!

[This message has been edited by boing (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
Sandy, I agree with what the others have said but since you live in Chicago, not a gun friendly city, I am not sure what YOU can do in the first case. If you live in an apartment or a small home, a large number of dogs would not work well as an alarm system. In that case a small yipper may be what you need, my anut had such a dog, it did not bark at people on the street or those coming up the walk but let someone knock on the door, try the knob or walk in the back of the house, Holy Hold Your Ears, Batman.



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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
LOL JimV! Well I cant have dogs I am allergic :(. So that is out of the question. Alarm system? Cant afford that. As for a 'safe' room I never thought about that. I really don't have one. My house is set up weird, there are doors everywhere and one close to the bedrooms. If I heard someone the first thing I would do is go into my little girls room which is right next to mine, so I guess that might be a safe room, but if they came in through my back door I would have to be really quick seeing that door is right near the hallway to her room. :( Im stuck! :( Our windows are kind of high up, I don't think I could jump with the girl in my hands. I wouldnt even want to picture that. I also dont have a cell phone, I do have a regular one in my room, but like someone said if the lines were cut that does me no good. To top all of that, my sister and my niece live downstairs, I couldn't abandon them. She will never get a gun, so basically I am the only one here to defend everyone, GREAT! Now I am really bummed. I do have a can of pepper spray I keep near my bed, but I don't know how effective that would be against some huge guy and a gun. Maybe I should go head on over to Home Depot and get some barbed wire for my doors and windows? Either that or put the For Sale sign up! Guess I have more to think about tonight when gopped up on the candy. :( I prefer to think of shooting.....targets!

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I am now an NRA member! :)
 
I do have a can of pepper spray I keep near my bed, but I don't know how effective that would be against some huge guy and a gun.

All that would do is ensure your death.

Miss D, you oughta look into the "Refuse to be a Victim" program offered by the NRA. It has *tons* of good tips on safe rooms, drills, etc.

And you may want to tell your sister and/or niece that they need to get off their anti-gun butts and help you, since you can't protect everyone. But do it politely, of course. :)

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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question.." Article 11, Section 13, CO state constitution.
 
Per the first question:
As confident and prepared and superior as we'd like to be, sometimes the bad guy wins. Just make sure the likelyhood is low and his cost high.
 
Per the first question:
As confident and prepared and superior as we'd like to be, sometimes the bad guy wins. Just make sure the likelyhood is low and his cost high.
 
Per the first question:
As confident and prepared and superior as we'd like to be, sometimes the bad guy wins. Just make sure the likelyhood is low and his cost high.
 
Miss d, simple alarm system a small bell that you can tie on the door knob or the door. Practice egress drills with your daughters. When practicing with a firearm, practice low light drills and when heart rate is up also to see if you can focus on the target.
 
Miss D,

The first thing to do is to make yourself perceived as a difficult target. This means having motion detector lights all over your house or apartment. Make your house appear to be the most PITA house to get into. Criminals prefer darkness as they provide anonymity. Take this away from them and they will be uncomfortable.

Secondly, lock all first story windows and make sure all doors are locked with a deadbolt. The most common method of burglar entries are through unlocked doors. Second is through an unlocked window. Make sure all possible entryways are also well lighted.

Bells on doorknobs, cheap motion detectors with a loud siren, etc., are all good tools to alert the asleep YOU that there is someone in your house.

Select and prepare a safe room that has a solid door, deadbolt lock, flashlight and cell phone. Practice contingency plans with your family; train and maintain skills with your firearm, as well as non-lethal defense skills. Learn the use of force ladder. As my instructor says, COMPETENCE leads to CONFIDENCE which leads to CONTROL.

Train so you may maintain CONTROL of your situation and environment and you will be way ahead on the power curve.

Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional Equipment
 
The biggest thing in my opinion is your mental attitude and whether you have decided that you WOULD kill to save your life and your child's life.

At somepoint in the scenario you might have to decide that you are at risk and that you must shoot. Since things will be happening fast and you will likely be stressed, you must do your thinking beforehand. You have to be clear in your mind what it will take to make you shoot.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Read the writings of Maasad Ayoob.
Then seriously contemplate Ed's advice.

Prepare yourself, mentally and training-wise...read and play scenarios in your mind....weigh the consequences...loss and gain.

Then you can decide.

Due to situational conditions, its easy for me.....Rural, isolated, not easily seen from public roads. Hence, a BG had to do serious prep to find and get to me...thus, if he is in my house, uninvited, he means me and my baby harm....deputies are 30 minutes away. Ergo,BG is toast.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Ed and DC, everybody, really, are all making this very good point:

Play it out in your head ahead of time, and know what you're going to do.

"Contingency Planning," my father called it when he trained me.


Draw a line in the sand in your mind, which, when crossed, elicits the reaction you train for. Make up your mind NOW what that reaction will be, and you save yourself having to do it when things are not calm.

Observation: Intruder is suspected in the house. (Strange noise, sight.}
Reaction: Arm yourself and get to your safe place; call for help.
***
Observation: Intruder is definitely in the house.
Reaction: Prepare to defend the occupants of your household. Should the intruder move toward any of them (including yourself), you must consider the intruder a threat.
***
Observation: Intruder moves toward you and/or another member of the household in a manner you perceive to be threatening.
Reaction: Stop him.
***
Observation Intruder moves away from you and/or the household occupants.
Reaction: Remain ready to defend yourself. Continue to watch him as best you can (*don't* follow!), and compile a mental description of him. Tell the cops immediately.

####

The way you train will allow you to make these decisions and to effect them without having to make the tough judgement call right then and there.

####

I'm not a big fan of reduced recoil loads in pistols, but for shotgun, they're fine. I go one further and use Dove and Quail loads (#8 shot) in my house gun. They are FAR lower recoil than the high-brass buckshot loads, but will stop any man that ever lived out to 15 yards (45 feet!) or better, and my neighbors to each side of my apartment are safe from overpenetration.

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt




[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
All situations are different, but yours actually sounds a lot like my own, except our house is 3-story, with wife and I on top and my Mom on the bottom, with the middle now empty since son the last left. I cannot just hide out in the top floor and consign my Mom to whatever might happen. And obviously if there is one BG you have to assume more. So I'm faced with clearing the house, at least having the advantage of knowing it better than an intruder.

My secret weapon, though, hasn't been mentioned here before. There is a remote control system sold for the last 20 years or more by various companies, which has a newer component of an alarm system. Sucker is not real expensive, especially a minimal system, and while I do not have any of the alarm components I can vouch for the remote system. Everything is plug-in, requires no wiring since it uses the house wiring, has available modules for essentially everything, timers, all kinds of options.

Mine is (and has been for 20 years, around five different houses) configured to turn on one light in every room in the house with a single button, and there are buttons in several locations. I do not relish hunting down a possibly armed BG in the dark, especially when my own children and possibly guests were in the home. So step one is get gun in hand, step two is push the button.

My home has never been invaded by a BG (knock on wood) but there have probably been 40 or 50 times I heard something that scared me inside the house and went through the drill. I gotta tell you it is a WHOLE lot more comfortable walking through a well lighted house, knowing you won't be shooting your sister in the dark for example, and that no one is going to be hiding in the shadows.

Then if you see someone who doesn't belong there you know that instantly. In direct response to your question, if someone is in my house, day or night, without my permission, he's gonna have to get face down on the floor real fast to survive. Without me telling him to.
 
Mrs. sbryce here. Larry, will you please share company name and contact information for your lighting 'alarm' system. This is of great interest to me, especially since there's no ripping-out-of-walls to add wiring. Thanks.

And thanks for everyone else's thoughts on this thread, too. I appreciate them.
 
Thanks all for your input. Now at least I have some ideas of what needs to be done.

Jim V, I'm not actually in Chicago (I was 2 years ago) so the suburb I live in is gun friendly (sort of), but I have other reasons for not getting one at this time. Although my BIL said he will take me to apply for my FOID soon! :)
 
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