Two injured in New Mexico Wal-Mart shootings

TheeBadOne

Moderator
Two arrested, a third at large after incident in New Mexico store

DEMING, N.M. - A man and a 6-year old girl were shot Tuesday inside a Wal-Mart in southern New Mexico, and police said two men were in custody.

A third suspect remained on the loose.

No information was available on the condition of either shooting victim or whether they had a connection to the suspects. The suspects were not identified.

A motive was unknown.

Police Chief Michael Carillo said the three men were inside the store when at least one of them opened fire with a .380 handgun.

Employees and managers at the store caught one suspect, but the two others fled. One was later arrested about one hour after the shooting at a location south of Deming, Carillo said.

Investigators believe a third man remained at large.

Linda Hack, 55, said she was shopping near the front of the store when she heard at least two pops.

“I didn’t know they were shots,” she said. But moments later, other customers told her someone was shooting. She and a horde of other customers fled toward the back of the store.

Carillo said the store was evacuated immediately after police arrived. Officers were on the scene within minutes.

U.S. Border Patrol, customs officials, state police and Luna County sheriff’s deputies were all involved in the search for the third suspect. Carillo said investigators also were interviewing witnesses and reviewing surveillance video from inside the store.

Sharon Weber, a spokeswoman for Wal-Mart at company headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., confirmed that there had been a shooting in the “vestibule area” of the store.

Weber had no other information and referred other questions to police.

Deming is about 100 miles northwest of El Paso and about 30 miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border.

The shooting was the second outburst of violence at a Wal-Mart store in New Mexico in recent months. In August, one man was killed and another injured in an apparent domestic dispute inside a store in Albuquerque.

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WTH! Folks, I'm really getting fed up with morons who act like this in public places. Bad enough they do this elsewhere, but in a store full of innocents!
I'm seriously starting to wish they bring back public executions! :mad:
 
The rising frequency of able bodied civilians working in concert with able bodied civilians with badges should be cause for us all to come together:
Employees and managers at the store caught one suspect, but the two others fled. One was later arrested about one hour after the shooting at a location south of Deming, Carillo said.

Investigators believe a third man remained at large.
Neither "side" can do it alone.
Rich
 
The rising frequency of able bodied civilians working in concert with able bodied civilians with badges should be cause for us all to come together:
Like this?
confused.gif







CCWBadge.jpg
 
I think Rich was talking about "civilians" (non-LEO) and "civilians with badges" (LEO). You ARE aware that you're technically a "civilian" right?
 
Not "technically": In fact; Historically; Indubitably; By definition; In deference to those fighting daily in War Zones without option to retreat awaiting backup. ;)

TBO knows, I think. He was probably just trying to make another point that we missed.
Rich
 
civilian
One entry found for civilian.


Main Entry: ci·vil·ian
Pronunciation: s&-'vil-y&n also -'vi-y&n
Function: noun
1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a : one not on active duty in a military, police, or fire-fighting force b : OUTSIDER 1
- civilian adjective

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/civilian

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=civilian

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/civilian?view=uk

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=13766&dict=CALD

http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=civilian&matchtype=exact

http://www.bartleby.com/61/76/C0377600.html


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Now, if you had said; citizen...
thumb.gif
 
civilian
# a nonmilitary citizen
# associated with or performed by civilians as contrasted with the military; "civilian clothing"; "civilian life"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# A civilian is a person who is not a member of a military. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention it is a war crime to deliberately attack a non-combatant civilian or wantonly and unnecessarily destroy or take the property of a civilian.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian

TBO-
Seems we have a conflict in definitions, no? (Of course mine includes a LEGAL definition, according to the Geneva Convention).
Not enough?
Wanna be a philologist? Do your homework.
Look up the word in a 10 year old dictionary; a 50 year old dictionary; a 100 year old dictionary; or a Revolutionary Times dictionary.

Know what you'll find? Civilian = Non-Armed Forces.

Wanna be a "Non-Civilian"? TFL Staffer, Police Sergeant Erick Gelhaus, made the transition; re-upped from the Reserves to go over to the SandBox for a year; lost pay, time off, vacation and accrual time; lost 3 close Team Members there; with God's help he comes home safe in a matter of weeks.

So, lemme get this straight. Are you a "Non-Civilian" in your mind? Is a Firefighter a "Non-Civilian" in your mind? Are you both comparing your jobs to the job Erick Gelhaus has been performing, in your mind?
Rich
 
Ci-vil'ian:

1. One who is skilled in the Roman Law; A professor or doctor of civil law.

2. In a more extended sense, one who is versed in law and government.

3. A student of the civil law at a university.

4. On whose pursuits are those of civil life, not military or ecclesiastical.

The New Twentieth Century Dictionary Unabridged, 1947

Ci-vil-ian

One whose pursuits are those of civil, not military life; one versed in Roman or civil law. Relating to, administered, or formed by a civilian or group of civilians.

The Living Webster Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language, 1977

In both my dictionary's, the only exclusion is that of the Military. Which dictionary is more correct, yours or mine?

Sure, mine are older but that is when the word was first defined (well, it was defined earlier but I don't have those dictionary's) yet I doubt that the meaning had changed much from the ORIGINAL definition.

Wayne
 
My definition is the current one (Merriam-Webster) , which some seem to have soooooo much trouble with. It seems they prefer the definition of "yester-year".

Things change, and so do definitions. If you don't like it, tough, change still occurs.



(and Rich, fwiw: I've done my time in fatigues)
 
TBO-
Fair enough. You answered the question.

You consider yourself a "Non-Civilian". By you own (choice of) dictionary the "rest" of us are of a different class. We are in the "non-Warrior" class. You, OTOH, are in the class of an Erick Gelhaus: donning your armor daily, to hazard the sudden attacks by hateful enemies on the danger-ridden streets of foreign turf. No one is to be trusted but The Team; All else are suspect....they are "Civilians".

Don't ever again question why mere "civilians" decry the widening gulf....they haven't moved away from you; no, you've moved away from them, representing even the best of them as a Class Apart. They haven't changed since the days of the Constitution; you have. Enjoy the privileges of your new class....you are Warrior.
Rich
 
Rich putting words in my mouth and emotional bantering/posturing is not what I expect from you.

TBO



Main Entry: cit·i·zen
Pronunciation: 'si-t&-z&n also -s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English citizein, from Anglo-French citezein, alteration of Old French citeien, from cité city
1 : an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2 a : a member of a state b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it
3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state
- cit·i·zen·ly /-z&n-lE also -s&n-/ adjective
synonyms CITIZEN, SUBJECT, NATIONAL mean a person owing allegiance to and entitled to the protection of a sovereign state. CITIZEN is preferred for one owing allegiance to a state in which sovereign power is retained by the people and sharing in the political rights of those people <the rights of a free citizen>.

Now there is a powerful word
 
My definition is the current one (Merriam-Webster) , which some seem to have soooooo much trouble with. It seems they prefer the definition of "yester-year".

Things change, and so do definitions. If you don't like it, tough, change still occurs.
Yup, many make the same argument about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Guess what? Your definition may change, but I don't like it. Some things are immutable and your ability to waft with the politically correct changes that please your current mental comforts hardly make them "right", per se.

You don't come into this forum doing passive-aggressive; you don't come in doing "Oh, I only said what the book says"; or "Well I know what I meant; If you disagree, you must be emotional."

Nope; around here, you live and die on your own statements. You back them up with better than nouveau "definition" or you face the ridiciule and consequence that follows. You've chosen your words.

One question:
a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state
Do you consider yourself a "specialized servant of the state"?

Rich
 
TBO, unless you are an MP or shore patrol or military CID or Provost Marshal or such, you do not enforce martial law; you enforce criminal and civil law in the civil sector of society.

Rich made a damn good point that civil society is capable of acting in concert with its appointed police. By missing his point, you make that of those who say that "Us" and "Them" have gotten too disparate. :(
 
Not this time, TBO. Your words are perfectly chosen and perfectly clear for any who wish to read it.
Really? Looks like your words below, not mine

You consider yourself a "Non-Civilian". By you own (choice of) dictionary the "rest" of us are of a different class. We are in the "non-Warrior" class. You, OTOH, are in the class of an Erick Gelhaus: donning your armor daily, to hazard the sudden attacks by hateful enemies on the danger-ridden streets of foreign turf. No one is to be trusted but The Team; All else are suspect....they are "Civilians".

Don't ever again question why mere "civilians" decry the widening gulf....they haven't moved away from you; no, you've moved away from them, representing even the best of them as a Class Apart. They haven't changed since the days of the Constitution; you have. Enjoy the privileges of your new class....you are Warrior.
Rich
around here, you live and die on your own statements. You've chosen yours. Did you have anything to add?
Yes. Quit putting up words and thoughts and attributing them to me.
Not the conduct of a reasoned individual.
 
TBO, unless you are an MP or shore patrol or military CID or Provost Marshal or such, you do not enforce martial law; you enforce criminal and civil law in the civil sector of society.

Rich made a damn good point that civil society is capable of acting in concert with its appointed police. By missing his point, you make that of those who say that "Us" and "Them" have gotten too disparate.
Negative. Rich goes out of his way to refer to LEOs or Peace Officers, or Sheriff's Deputies or Police Officers, or State Patrol/Troopers as: "Uniformed Civilians" intentionally staying away from: LEOs or Peace Officers, or Sheriff's Deputies or Police Officers, or State Patrol/Troopers

I have no negative comment on good citizens doing their part. That is what makes it all work, period.
 
TBO, unless you are an MP or shore patrol or military CID or Provost Marshal or such, you do not enforce martial law; you enforce criminal and civil law in the civil sector of society.

Rich made a damn good point that civil society is capable of acting in concert with its appointed police. By missing his point, you make that of those who say that "Us" and "Them" have gotten too disparate.
Negative. Rich goes out of his way to refer to LEOs or Peace Officers, or Sheriff's Deputies or Police Officers, or State Patrol/Troopers as: "Uniformed Civilians" intentionally staying away from: LEOs or Peace Officers, or Sheriff's Deputies or Police Officers, or State Patrol/Troopers

I have no negative comment on good citizens doing their part. That is what makes it all work, period.
 
Side note:

What is so hateful or "bad" about being a civilian? In the military we were not civilians because we were held under military law. Yes, a civil court could adjudicate you but you were also held to military law. So therefore, we couldn't be civilians because we were held to a higher standard (and more strict laws).

Unless you are saying that you don't wish to be considered a civilian because you shouldn't be held to civil law, then the law that you are held to should be much stricter than what we are held.

But, once I got out of the service, I became a civilian because now I was only held to civil law, not military law.

Could it be that LEO's don't like to be considered civilians because civilians are looked down upon as needy and without a fighting spirit, a class of people that should be despised because they are below another class?

Now that I'm thinking about it, it's starting to become clearer about what is being said.

Wayne
 
Could it be that LEO's don't like to be considered civilians because civilians are looked down upon as needy and without a fighting spirit, a class of people that should be despised because they are below another class?
Not in the least (at least not from me).
The point is a person who constantly uses the word and when shown the correct definition, gets bent out of shape and refers to old dictionaries.
Call me a civilian, call me a citizen, I'm proud to be called both.
Don't, however, use any work continuously and then get upset when shown what that words definition means.

I am no more and no less than any other man. I greet all people with Sir/Ma-am and a smile, often followed by a handshake. Judge me on my words and actions please.

All the best

TBO
 
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