two eyes vs. one eye (practicing for defense)

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hologon

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Ok, I don't seem to be finding as much as I was hoping for on the whole two-eye vs. one-eye argument. I have an odd question that I'm sure people will find rehashed over and over (at least I'm not asking about 9mm vs. .45 ;) )

The big problem is this: I've always been told that I should focus on the front sight and let the target be a big blotchy thing.

This is all fine and dandy for shooting paper that doesn't move, but last night in my apartment I thought about some posts I read here. I tried opening both my eyes, looking at the target itself (a bottle of fluorescent green Windex) and found that this felt much more natural than trying to walk around with the pistol real high up and one eye closed (therefore making me bump into a box I forgot I had put in the living room...and no, the gun was NOT loaded! ;) )

By fixating at a point about 2/3rds between the target and the sights, I could maintain a semi-blurry "sight picture" and a completely clear "target picture". It was pretty easy to keep the 3-dot target located right at the nozzle/handle of the BG (windex bottle) even while moving around some (although I never tried dangling the bottle from a bungee cord and making it fly around my room...)

With a bit of practice it feels like it could be second nature to maintain a sight picture in the "back of my mind" while never losing concentration of the target. (I'm one of those drivers who could get obsessed with looking to my left when merging that I forget there's a car in front of me...)

So I figured it might be a good idea to practice in a way that if the situation ever were to arise I wouldn't get nervous and forget which thing to look at (BG or front sight) -- just stare at the BG and let the "background sight alignment" happen.

Somehow it seems a good deal more natural, and I figure, at 7-20 feet, hitting COM is not going to require such precision as required to hit a 1" circle at 50 feet, especially with repeat shots.

Furthermore, it seems to me that watching the target/BG would be better to predict sudden movements.

The only thing I would wonder is whether it's a lot harder to realign the sights for follow-up shots if one weren't fixating on the sights themselves?

I have no idea how this works, mind you -- just theorizing/babbling, so please don't get too irritated if this all goes to hell in a real situation. I was just thinking that I should get it right when I practice and not learn any bad habits -- some of which might include paper-positive, situation-negative habits (or is this an oxymoron? are all skills/habits learned by shooting paper equally extensible to a situation?)

Is this "point shooting" exactly? My impression is that point shooting didn't use the sights at all.

What do IPSC/IDPA/PPC type people advocate? Do they have to worry about peripheral threats/moving BG's? (I have never seen an IPSC/PPC type match...)

Is there anywhere in Northern New Jersey where I could learn/practice PPC style courses?

Thanks!

-Jon

keywords: both eyes open, two eyes, one eye, situational, point shooting, defense vs. target shooting, peripheral vision
 
The proper technique is to "keep both eyes open" and focus with your dominant side on the front site. You will see a lesser focused rear site picture with a clear front site. Once that is aligned, place the front site on the target. The target will be blurry but visible enough to put bullets on COM. At the range I still put them all in the 10 ring at 15 yds. You never close one eye in tactical shooting because you still need to see your environment (and who else is in it).

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
Hologon,

I feel your pain :). My Gunsite instructors espoused the same view of focusing on the front site and keeping the BG blurry with both eyes open. I could not learn to shoot this way however. It was so much more natural to focus on the BG and align fuzzy sites to me. I am sure that my instructors were right, but it just didn't work well for me, my eyes were always confused on what to look at.

So far I haven't noticed a lack of precision or speed with this style of shooting and I think that keeping your attention and focus on the threat has its own merits. Shifting your point of focus in a stressful situation seems to add another necessary variable.

Definitely use two eyes though, you want the largest scope of vision possible. It will be difficult enough not to develop tunnel vision with both eyes open.

What do you pro's think?

regards,

Olazul

[This message has been edited by olazul (edited November 24, 1999).]
 
My favorite phrase when dealing with weapons and tactics is : practice, practice, practice.

I ALWAYS shoot with both eyes open. I focus, very quickly and briefly on the sights, then move my focus down the barrel and across to the target; thereafter all my focus is on the target (whether paper, human, or otherwise).

Again practice is the only way to be comfortable with shooting accurately. When you've shot so much that you no longer really "need to aim" when shooting, then you know that you're getting to where you need to be.

knowing which eye is your dominant eye may also help with this. Quickly, here is how to know. Place both hands together, palms out at arm's length; cross your thumbs and tilt your fingers so that one hand lays under the other. There should be a VERY small opening between your hands just above one thumb. Holding your hands out at arms length focus on a VERY small point (like a nail hole in the wall). Bring your hands slowly back, keeping the point centered. Your hands should move back to your dominant eye.

For me, I shoot right-handed (that's the way I was trained), but I'm left eye dominant. This helps me with shooting with both eyes open. It also helps because I can shoot accurately with either hand.

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Stand against evil, lest evil have its way...
 
I suppose the stress on focusing on your front sight during practice is so you do the same under the stress of combat. I've seen enough people who thought they were looking at the front sight who in reality were looking at the target and trying to spot their hits. They invariably dropped their pistol at the time of sear release to get a better look at the target and gotten low, scattered hits. I've caught myself doing it from time to time.

I don't think you can control your front sight unless you are concentrating on it.

For those who have the ability to keep all three in semi-focus - rear sight, front sight, and target - you may in reality be changing the focal point of your eyes' lense rapidly so that all three seem definable. That ability fades quickly after about 35-40 years of age.

I am 52 years old and am slightly far-sighted. I require about 1.75 - 2.0 diopters of correction to read. I have to play with head position to get the best view of my front sight through my glasses and it doesn't always work if I am shooting in a hurry. I still go for the best focus on the front sight I can get. It is the only thing that works for me and the other deputies in the department when I was firearms instructor from 1992-1997.
 
My two cents worth:

Beginners should start out with only one eye open until their muscle memory is firmly "imprinted". Then, they can shift to two eye and attempt dynamic shooting.

I think both one-eye and two-eye have their place. 90%+ of the time, I use two-eyes, but then my handgun practice usually never exceed 25 yards and rarely 50. But, whenever optimum accuracy is needed, once the pistol is brought to bear with two-eyes open, I'll quickly close my weak eye, tap, and then open my eye right back up.

I've been wondering about "front sight focus" for some time now. I know this is really splitting hair, but to me, focus isn't really to focus with the eye, but to focus with the mind. I know this sounds funny, but it's okay to focus on the target with your eyes so long as at the moment you touch the trigger, you shift your mental focus on the front sight. Your eyes may or may not follow, it doesn't matter.

And there is a subtle but important reason for doing that. We don't want to hesitate. We don't want flinch. We don't want to second guess. And we don't want to freeze. Mental focus on front sight will help keep your sight picture while momentarily "detach" our conscious mind from clutter, and focus it on an arbitrary task.

I realize that for all I know, I'm just talking about of my rear. But that's what I experience when I'm training dynamic shooting. Still, I could be wrong, misunderstood, or there may be a better way. If so, please let me know.
 
hologon,

All new or inexperienced shooters should learn the basics first and the basics are to focus on the front sight so it is sharp and clear and all else is fuzzy. I doubted this method for years but once I used it properly my accuracy improved by several orders of magnitude. I ALWAYS use total front sight focus for target practice, sighting in, hunting and general shooting.

Just like a professional baseball player develops his own swing, the advanced shooter can develop alternate methods to suit different situations. Both things require that the basics be mastered first and there are NO SHORTCUTS! Aimed fire comes first!

That said, the transition you talk about can be a logical one when moving from the target shooting world to the defensive tactics world. Some shooters continue to use the front sight mantra for everything and that works well, especially for pinpoint accuracy. Also, as much as we hate to admit it, some of us have less ability to make quick decisions and judgements concerning choices we may have and, for those lacking mental agility, a single method prevents the lapse required to make the decision. You MUST be honest with yourself about this facet of gunmanship because to try to fool yourself can get you killed!

For those who can do it, there are other options. The transition you referred to is sometines called "ghost sighting" or "silhouette sighting" but the name doesn't matter as much as the method. You use a "ghost" or "silhouette" image of the pistol to index your sighting plane but focus on the target. Accuracy WILL suffer but you MUST practice this method and determine your threshold distance of acceptable defensive accuracy (EVERY shot in the "A" zone). Once determined, you MUST to have the mental discipline and agility to NEVER use the method beyond your limits and make the mental switch to sighted fire beyond those limits!

Some shooters can effectively fire on close range targets without the acquisition of the ghost image at all (or at least not consciously) and remain totally focused on the target. This is sometimes referred to as "point shooting" or "instinctive shooting" and requires lots of practice, large doses of mental agility and EXTREME discipline. Like I said, there are NO shortcuts!

Mikey
 
Here's my technique: I keep both eyes open and don't use the sights up close (<7yards). I keep both eyes on the target, bring the pistol up and look over the sights as I pull the trigger. You're not going to get 2.5 inch groups, but you will be able to hit a 2-legged predator in center mass +- a few inches. This works well with a natural pointing pistol like a CZ-75, SIG, or 1911.
 
I seem to go with both eyes open unless the target is out far enough where I have to concentrate on the sight picture to line up the hit - then the weak eye closes and the only thing in my world is the sights, the trigger, and what I am about to destroy. After the target is engaged - then I check the rest of the world as needed.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
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