Two encounters with MiB

How about some map coordinates?

Whenever I hear about this kind of stuff, I'm always skeptical. Why? because I'm a realist and realistically if you had an encounter like this, and really wanted to make sure that word got out to all citizens, wouldn't you post to the 'net with some coordinates, specific directions, etc?

Instead, you get a vague description of the area and no chance in hell of finding the exact location. And its also one or two generations removed from the source, so no real opportunity to get the info from the primary source. Very convenient.

Give me a latitude and longitude and I'll go there personally or find someone reliable who lives near there to confirm. Otherwise, its just BS.
 
Kinda makes ya wonder don't it?
I have seen two things the government didn't plan for me to see. Due to circumstances I can't give longitude/latitude. Does this make them any less real?

I myself have had the curiosity to go back and learn more. But, on the other hand, being in the USAF for four years taught me that you really don't want to be somewhere you shouldn't be thats monitored by military security gaurds.

Sprig
 
Sprig,

You're also not posting said incidents to the internet with the intent of "spreading the word." If you did, I'd want some documentation to take it seriously.

I don't harbor any illusions about our gubmint's dirty laundry. Its just that we've got to sort the wheat from the chaff. This looks like chaff.
 
I can't attest to the incident in Wyoming, but I can tell you that the "incident" in Washington at Ft. Lewis sounds like B.S.

First off, the closest thing that could be considered the "headwater" dam of the Nisqually River is approximately 20 miles from Fort Lewis. In fact there is no "headwater" dam to this river. It originates in Mt. Rainier National Park and its source is the Nisqually glacier. There are only two dams on this river, neither are anywhere near Fort Lewis.

Secondly, there is no part of Fort Lewis "northeast" of the Mt. Rainier foothills. Fort Lewis is located north of what we locals call the Bald Hills and west of the Cascades range.

As I sit here at my desk writing this, I am approximately 300 feet away from a major training area of Fort Lewis. I have never seen anything remotely like this.
 
Cactus, on the other hand ...
Fort Lewis does get the chance to play around more so then it seems other bases do. I think this is due to its backroads link to McChord AFB.

However, I would agree that any "black fenced" area near Ft. Lewis along the Nisqually is unlikely.

HOWEVER! I know a guy that has been goin out to Ft. Lewis outskirts to for years and years and years to do some plinkin. And, just last year he got chased out, twice, in such a manner that he is lookin for a new location.

My only interest in this thread is that I hate to see claims by good people called false because there isn't good proof. I do however, think speculation is good thing. The bottom line is that events like these should be filed in the back of the brain cells until later data fully proves or refutes the story.

UPDATE!!! QUTOED ORIGINAL LINK BELOW.
-----
As to the Ft Lewis report. That is easy, go down the yelm highway from yelm toward oly. Turn right at the main Nisqually tribal area with the shops. Go through the tribal area toward the river. Take the center fork of the road when it splits. About two miles after the road turns to gravel, you will find the first of the tank crossing signs. After the first sign, take a right onto the gravel road. At this point you will be heading back NE toward the back side of rainier. The river will be on your left. Go until you run into the dam. Park on the other side of the damn and continue walking north along the now dirt road. Go two miles further past the dam. At this time of the year the brush closes in around the road so no place to park further and you do not want to leave your vehicle on that road. After you have walked approximately 2 miles, you will see one of the ubiquitous mil spec bridges. This is the one you cannot use to get there. Go past the bridge another 100 paces or so until the brush on the left clears. Go down the bank. Cross the river, shallowish there but swift and cold so watch out. Then go up the bank on the opposite side. Work yourself through the salal and brush. Should not be more than 40 feet off the top of the bank. Fence is there.
-----

I am at most 15 minutes by car from the first turn off mentioned. Anyone here at TFL want to join me to prove it true/false one way or the other?

Sprig
 
1. GPS units are cheap and common. Surely someone can give the exact location of one of these "secret military sites" for some verification.

2. but the crew truck could not possibly turn around where they saw the sign. So they kept driving. About 2 miles later after having seen over a dozen other signs of increasing threat stance. Let me get this straight: some guys way out in the woods in a truck on a dirt road can't find a place to turn around for two miles??? Especially after the motivation of "don't enter or you die" signs?

3. Let me tell you my MiB story... <insert made-up fact-free spooky story here - gee, that's not difficult, is it?>.
 
Sprig,

I don't doubt that your friend was booted off of Fort Lewis for plinking. They tend to frown on this as one never knows when soldiers may be training nearby. In case your friend didn't notice, there are "No Trespassing" signs posted all along the boundary of the Fort. He is lucky he wasn't arrested.

Many people frequently ride horses on the Fort and are not bothered. I frequently run or ride my mountain bike along the dirt roads and have never been asked to leave either. Many people hunt on the Fort during the open season. They are required to take a safety course and inform the authorities where they intend to hunt. But one should not expect to just go on post and start shooting!

As for those directions, they are bunk! There is no gravel road following the river going all the way from the Nisqually Reservation back to the LaGrande Dam approximately 25 miles away. Long before you ever came to the dam, you would go through the town of McKenna. McKenna is approximately 5 miles upstream of the Fort Lewis boundary and the dam is another 15 miles further upstream.

Further more, following these directions, one would be heading SOUTH EAST towards the west face of Mt. Rainier. This is not the "back" side of Rainier but is considered the main side as it receives the most visitors.

If one walked two miles past the LaGrande Dam, you would pass the Alder Dam and would be in Alder Lake. Between LaGrande Dam and Alder Dam is a very steep canyon over 200 feet deep, not many people attempt to cross the river here and live to tell about it.

[This message has been edited by Cactus (edited July 05, 2000).]
 
Cactus,
Well as to my friend and his plinking, your statement may be read by some TFL members who are unfamiliar with the area that this is done in normal troop areas. The land area owned by Ft. Lewis is huge, let me stress HUGE! There are numerous areas that they don't patrol or use. Many public roads and highways run THROUGH Ft.Lewis because of its size. I "think" even I-5 even runs THROUGH Ft. Lewis property.

The POINT was that my friend has been plinkin for YEARS AND YEARS in an area that hasn't ever been used by Ft. Lewis and NOW they seem to think its worth the manpower to patrol or monitor.

Then Catcus, you said, "As for those directions, they are bunk! There is no gravel road following the river going all the way from the Nisqually Reservation back to the LaGrande Dam approximately 25 miles away."

The oringinal story went, "he saw some unusual signs. Lots of new activity. New roads, really solid gravel beds on them, not like the tank trail roads..."

Now, I am not trying to stick up for fabricated stories of black helicopters. But, when someone says there are now new roads, doesn't one need to go and look before they say there aren't any new roads???

What I am trying to do in this thread is to make CERTAIN that members don't call this false until they know for sure. Otherwise, the replies have the potential to be more erronius as the orignal post.

I have two stories that if I told them in just the wrong way, everyone here on TFL would come on and bash me. Remember, not everyone is a best selling book author and sometimes they trip over what they said and what they meant to say.

Still, caution and being sceptical is the best way to deal with these stories. Ingoring them is not.

Cactus, I am on your side here. Including the fact that I know the military can and does do things civilians don't understand. If you have such intimate knowedge of the area, why don't you agree to arrange to set up a hike with me as I offered in my other post???

One or two hours of driving and hiking could bring this half of the thread to an end. For obvious reasons of course I don't want to do this alone. I live at most 15 minutes away from the first turn off specified. Care to check it out personally?

Fact or fiction as found out first hand for the TFL members?

Sprig
 
ctdonath,

1. Sometimes these stories come from before the cheap and common GPS. And, some of us, even now I don't, have that all so cheap and common Gps.

This doesn't mean the story is wrong, just the location.

2. I can show you a number of locations here in the NW were you CAN NOT turn a car or truck around for miles. If you tried you would either end up between two trees or fallin off a mountain side.

This doesn't mean the story isn't true.

HEY LOOK ALL !!!!!

I am not a black helicopter believing person. I think I have a fairly good grasp on what the military can do and I do sometimes kinda wonder about the reports I hear. I won't tolerate weak rebuttals in my effort to educate myself on current practices though.

Lets get the information as best we can, the go and and PROVE it false. Thats all I ask.

Sprig
 
Yeah, check it out. I'd like to see some of these put to rest, or put to public. Either way would be a benifit to us all.

Sprig, If I lived out in your area, I'd take you up on the offer. If nothing more, it would be a great day out in the woods!

------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 
SOMEBODY please go up there!

ctdonath- I can confirm that there are many roads in the NW where you physically CANNOT turn around for miles. I've (stupidly) gone up some of those roads and ended up driving in reverse for longer than I care to remember.
 
I don't see how it necessarily is not true. The govt is always up to some sort of BS and not all of their facilities are going to be public, especially nuclear warhead launch sites, or bioweapon engineering sites. Wouldn't make much sense to publicize those. The fact is none of us can say either way, but there is no doubt many places the govt doesn't want people poking around.
 
Wanted to let you all know that I have thought about trying to figure where near Ft.Lewis this guy was talking about. I can understand why Cactus considers this BS. The compass directions are clearly wrong. The statement, "point you will be heading back NE toward" should read SE toward Mt. Rainer. Also, there doesn't appear to be any significant change of the Nisqually river to the left (upstream) that would correspond to a new northern heading given the wrong intial bearing. However, the river does turn south right about the boundary edges of parts of the reservation and Ft.Lewis. This guy might have a terrible sense of direction and distance and didn't bring a compass with him.

Still taking offers to take a hike with any TFL members in the area.

Sprig
 
My main point was that for all these "secret installation" reports, it shouldn't be hard for someone to give some verifiable facts...and because of the ease of inventing a story, it's up to the teller to prove it, not up to the listener to disprove it. There's enough of these stories that at least ONE should have been verified, or at least GPS coordinates given.

I'll relent on the "no room to turn around" point.
 
I've been following this thread to see where the road leads, so to speak.

I'm not giving up on the "no room to turn around" point. I have been to a few of these types of installations and without exception, the road leading to them is wide enough to turn around. This is because the road has to be wide enough for an Army truck or a Hummer at the very least. If you can't turn around in a road wide enough for that, then you shouldn't be driving in the wilderness areas. Sure it'll take a few back-and-forths, but you should be able to do it in less than a minute.

Secondly, if a sign saying "Turn around now" is put up on the road, a small turn around area is usually provided. Also, the number of "turn around" signs mentioned is ludicrous. If you ignore or miss the first 3, the "owners" are going to know you are up to no good and you assuredly won't make it all the way to the gate without being intercepted.

Does anyone think that trucks and cars going into these installations only go in one way and never leave (a gov't black hole)? And does anyone think that the possibility that a car going in one direction will never meet a car going in the other direction on a road that can be several miles in length? Ridiculous. If the road cannot be made wide enough (rare), turn outs are usually provided every 3 or 4 hundred yards. Which means one car has to back up for a fairly short distance.
 
Okay, here's the latest response from the original poster:

I don't know if I can get lat/long coordinates, but I will see the guy about the wyoming incident later next week. I will get the nearest town and cross roads to the turn off to the top of the mountain. I do think that he told me it was in South Wyoming about a 100 miles north of the Dinosaur area of Colorado.

As to the Ft Lewis report. That is easy, go down the yelm highway from yelm toward oly. Turn right at the main Nisqually tribal area with the shops. Go through the tribal area toward the river. Take the center fork of the road when it splits. About two miles after the road turns to gravel, you will find the first of the tank crossing signs. After the first sign, take a right onto the gravel road. At this point you will be heading back NE toward the back side of rainier. The river will be on your left. Go until you run into the dam. Park on the other side of the damn and continue walking north along the now dirt road. Go two miles further past the dam. At this time of the year the brush closes in around the road so no place to park further and you do not want to leave your vehicle on that road. After you have walked approximately 2 miles, you will see one of the ubiquitous mil spec bridges. This is the one you cannot use to get there. Go past the bridge another 100 paces or so until the brush on the left clears. Go down the bank. Cross the river, shallowish there but swift and cold so watch out. Then go up the bank on the opposite side. Work yourself through the salal and brush. Should not be more than 40 feet off the top of the bank. Fence is there.

-------------------------

We'll see.
 
here is a map of the area in question : http://sitemap.mapquest.com/
mqmapgend?MQMapGenRequest=
FDR2dmwjDE%3bf72g%26FDT7w%7cqy1wg6%24.90a0lyb%
3a%26%40%24%3a%26%40t%3ag67%3ag67%3aVO%16P%2aE
%14QXO%2a2%266%24%3a%26%40%24%3a%26%407%3a

paste the whole url in a browser & it should pop to the right area

dZ

[This message has been edited by dZ (edited July 06, 2000).]
 
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