Two 1911 questions

[BrokenBottles]

I recently bought an Armscor Officer style 1911 (can't remember the exact model off the top of my head) and I love it. I seem to have caught a bit of a 1911 bug.

Anyways: Looking around on line, I've stumbled across some commander length slides and I'm wondering if it really is just a matter of fitting the slide to frame like most reviews are saying. Does anyone have any experience with simply switching complete slides (all slide internals are included in the ones I've been looking at, including the barrel) onto an older/different brand 1911?
Will a 45 ACP cut feed ramp feed 10mm?
I know it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a new gun but I don't want to go that route and this seemed like a first step into building my own custom 1911.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Anyways: Looking around on line, I've stumbled across some commander length slides and I'm wondering if it really is just a matter of fitting the slide to frame like most reviews are saying. Does anyone have any experience with simply switching complete slides (all slide internals are included in the ones I've been looking at, including the barrel) onto an older/different brand 1911?

Yes. I've put a Commander length slide on an Officers size receiver, and I've done the opposite. I have one receiver that began life as a .45 ACP that's now wearing a .38 Super top end, with a 9mm barrel for when I don't feel like burning up .38 Super ammo. I had another, several years ago, that I switched between .45 ACP and .40 S&W, both in Commander length.

Will a 45 ACP cut feed ramp feed 10mm?

Probably, but not certainly. It might be finicky about magazine choice.

I know it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a new gun but I don't want to go that route and this seemed like a first step into building my own custom 1911.

It's a good way to learn more about the platform, that's for certain.

 

[HiBC]

I'm not quite knowledgable enough to give you a definitive answer on the 10mm,but I do suggest you gather more info.
The 10 mm is "semi-successful" in the 1911.RIA makes a beefed up version of a 10mm..
You may be head for a self destructing money pit.
I suspect you might be good with a .40...maybe.
There are ramped vs non ramped barrels.A ramped barrel requires altering the frame.For the smaller bore higher pressure cartridges,it offers better case support.A regular 45 is typically not ramped.On the fat 45 cartridge,that can cause its own problems.The 45 operates at lowerpressures,18,000 ...I don't know if its psi or cup right now,but the .40 and 10mm will run nearly twice that.The cases may goose egg out the side some with a non ramped 40 or 10 mm.That is not a definitive statement of fact,its something for you to research.

The ejector is frame mounted.I know 38 Super and 45 ejectors are different.Not sure which a 40/10 mm uses.
45 and 38 Super use a different slide stop.Not sure about the 40/10mm.

If you are intending to do the work yourself,and you are not experienced...

.Iwon't tell you you cannot.But please do not count on a barrel and slide being a drop in.The drop ins require fitting and an understanding of lockup,linkdown,timing,lug clearance...There is more to it than getting the parts to assemble.The parts have a bit of a co-ordinated dance to perform and the choreography may seem simple in its elegance...but that does not just happen on its own.Its easy to get it "not quite right" and scrap the barrel lugs or the slide lugs or both.
A 1911 is not like an AR.
It is not just assembling parts.The barrel is locked up in the slide with the firing pin hole centered in the barrel then the barrel underlug is fitted to the slide stop pin so the slide stop actually locks the barrel.The link simple positions the barrel to lock.The barrel and slide come back together as the link of proper length pulls the barrel down sufficiently out of lockup,then the barrel underlug hits the frame and the slide continues back.At this point the slide MUST be fully unlocked plus a little clearance or the lugs will be battered...
The barrel underlug must print properly on the frame or it will break.
And,oh my goodness!!The fat part of the new barrel may be a different diameter than the fat part of the old barrel,so they may not sit the saddle of the frame the same...When you get that all worked out the barrel /chamber mouth has to be the right place relative to the feed ramp...
A new ejector requires fitting and drilling for a pin or two...
I'm not trying to tell you how,I'm just telling you you have to do all that ,some of it takes tools and any of it might mean buying new parts and starting over.

Get it a little bit wrong with an 18,000 psi 45,you may never notice.
Get up to twice that pressure,or more in a 40/10mm...and you better have it right.
But it does sound like a nice idea.A little slide/bbl length still conceals,and you can stick in a longer mag at reload.

 

[polyphemus]

I recently bought an Armscor Officer style 1911 (can't remember the exact model off the top of my head) and I love it.

It ain't broke then,you'd just like to modify it to fire 10mm ammunition.
I would visit the fellows down at the Smithy for suggestions and guidance there
is a lot of collective experience in that forum and you'll find straight forward answers to your project questions.good luck

 

[BrokenBottles]

Thank you very much. I don't plan on starting the build, or even buying parts for at least 6 months so I have a decent amount of time.
I was looking into the ramped vs non ramped barrels but no one mentioned 10mm goose egging in a non ramped. More stuff to look in to.
The complete slides I was looking at already have the extractor in the slide (no integral but installed); supposedly the locking lugs of the barrel are fitted to the frame.
Even after I get it complete, I plan on taKing it to a gun smith to at least look it over.
Sorry I didn't quote specific things, I'm on break and shurt for time.

 

[James K]

In addition to HiBC's advice, I will add that installing a short slide on a standard frame will result in a funny looking gun because the dust cover (the part of the frame ahead of the trigger guard) will be too long. In the reverse, it will be too short and leave a gap. One decision is whether you intend the change to be permanent or whether you want to be able to swap slides when you want; that is usually not practical, even if possible.

Jim

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The complete slides I was looking at already have the extractor in the slide (no integral but installed); supposedly the locking lugs of the barrel are fitted to the frame.

Sorry, but that's impossible. The only connection between the barrel and the frame in a 1911 is the link, and the slide stop pin. The fitting involved is the barrel hood length and the locking lugs on top of the chamber being fitted to the slide.

 

[Kosh75287]

There's a lot of gunsmithing on 1911A1s that I'll probably NEVER know, so I may have this entirely wrong: Converting a 10mm pistol to the lower-pressure .45 ACP cartridge seems, at first blush, a safe if expensive endeavour. Converting a .45 ACP to 10mm, on the other hand, sounds like trouble. The 10mm operates at half-again to twice the pressure of the .45 ACP. I envision all kinds of trouble with recoil spring assemblies, slide velocities, frame longevities, frame cracks, and substantially accelerated wear. I'll be happy to learn that all of these considerations are utterly unfounded, but something tells me otherwise.

 

[Llama Bob]

1911 barrel lower lugs are potentially a fitting point, especially if you care a lot about accuracy. It's not just the top side that gets fitted.

 

[BrokenBottles]

Sorry, but that's impossible. The only connection between the barrel and the frame in a 1911 is the link, and the slide stop pin. The fitting involved is the barrel hood length and the locking lugs on top of the chamber being fitted to the slide.

Sorry, I was trying to type type really fast while walking. I meant to say fitted to the slide.

In the reverse, it will be too short and leave a gap. One decision is whether you intend the change to be permanent or whether you want to be able to swap slides when you want;

How much of a gap would a Commander length slide leave on an Officer frame? Unless it will lead to potential reliability problems, a very small gap is something I ok with since it will strictly be a range gun.
I'm ok with it being a permanent change. I don't have any reason/desire to have a multi-caliper handgun.

I've decided against going with the 10mm. After some research about using a 10mm in an unsupported chamber, I don't feel like it's worth it to modify the frame for a ramped barrel or to shoot 10mm in an unsupported chamber since I'd end up reloading for it.

There's a lot of gunsmithing on 1911A1s that I'll probably NEVER know, so I may have this entirely wrong: Converting a 10mm pistol to the lower-pressure .45 ACP cartridge seems, at first blush, a safe if expensive endeavour. Converting a .45 ACP to 10mm, on the other hand, sounds like trouble. The 10mm operates at half-again to twice the pressure of the .45 ACP. I envision all kinds of trouble with recoil spring assemblies, slide velocities, frame longevities, frame cracks, and substantially accelerated wear. I'll be happy to learn that all of these considerations are utterly unfounded, but something tells me otherwise.

Most of what I've turned up in my limited research says that slide life is typically expected to be around 10k-20k rounds for 10mm and about 30k-40k for 45ACP. Quality of slide material would change that, as would the particular loadings. As for springs, I believe that most people have been running 25lbs springs with good results. 10mm definitely causes more wear on the entire gun that 45.
But I'm pretty sure I'm out of the 10mm 1911 path, at least for now.

 

[44 AMP]

Barrel and slide are a big part, but not the only part. Here's one only lightly touched on so far, the Ejector.

A humble part, seldom thought of, because it doesn't do anything active, it just sits there and lets the case hit it.

BUT, it has to be the right size and shape in order to do both its jobs properly.

Yes, I sad both its jobs. The second one is seldom something anyone thinks about. Job#1 is to kick out the empties when the gun fires. Job#2 is to kick out live rounds when the slide is operated by hand.

I ran across and example recently where it did job1 flawlessly, but failed job2.

The gun was not a cheapie. A "reproduction" 1918 vintage model 1911 right down to the proper period markings, from a very respected shop (serious $$). The owner had shot it 3 times in the 6months he had it, worked flawlessly.

I was looking it over, and notices the ejector didn't "look" right to me. I worked in the Army's Small Arms repair shops in the 70s, and I know what a 1911/1911A1 ejector looks like. What this gun had, wasn't it.

SO, we began experimenting. Clearing the pistol by hand, it would eject snap caps. I would eject JHP ammo. It would NOT eject 230gr FMJ ball. It jammed. It was interesting that it would eject a snap cap with the same dimensions as ball ammo, but ball ammo could NOT be ejected by hand. The loaded round would jam at an angle and the only way to clear the gun was to drop the mag, hold the slide back (the jam prevented using the slide stop to lock the slide back) and wiggle the loaded round until it popped loose and fell down the magwell.

The owner had never noticed this. His range sessions always shot the gun empty. He called the shop, and they send him the shipping tag. Gun came back in about a week, with the correct ejector. Shop guy was very sincere about how that SHOULD NOT have happened.

I tell you this so you can understand that when you are switching calibers in a 1911 pattern gun, the specific ejector might make more of a difference than you expect. ALSO, the other lesson here is that snap caps are not dummy rounds. A positive function check with a snap cap is NOT a guarantee of proper function with live ammo!

Hope this helps

 

[polyphemus]

And yet a third job,holding the round steady after the magazine has released it.
This is why loading stoppages can be the result of an incorrect extractor setup.