Turret press and accurate loads?

C

cptmclark

New member
I thought it would b nice to leave my dies set up in the Lee turrets and just change the turret with no need for repeat setup.
I notice some slop between the turret and the press, as the ram is raised. Has to have some play to change so easily I guess.

So question is does the die go to the same square position each time a bullet is seated? I don't mind if it raises the die maybe .004 or so if it's always the same and always square when under pressure.

What do you who have experience with rifle cartridges in the Lee Classic know about this?
Thanks much for sharing experience and advice.
 
I haven't assessed the slop in my Lee turret. But, I do know this. Even with my inexperience, I can shoot sub moa. Usually around .5 moa. That's nothing spectacular, but since I've only been loading and shooting for less than a year, I'd say it's a good starting point

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If there is less accuracy from ammo loaded on it, someone forgot to tell the targets I shoot about it. The give that it has is normal, and repeatable so ammo is consistent.
 
I would assume that as long as you put it into the same turret there would be no change. If you swapped turret presses, then you might have a problem. But this is no different than say an XL650, if you had two and tried to swap the toolheads, you might introduce a problem.
 
I don't mind if it raises the die maybe .004 or so
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I do not want the shell holder to raise the die .004"; there is a magic number, the magic number is .002". The magic .002" does not take into consideration we are talking about a shell plate or tool head. The shell plate and or tool head is not directly over the ram meaning there is a cantilever involved in there somewhere.

I have 2 turrets and 5 progressive presses. And then there are tools like deflection gages and strain gages.

F. Guffey
 
I guessed at the .004. On the Lee turret, the "turret" is a seperate disk into which is screwed the dies. The turret disk is maybe 3" round in diameter. It is not part of the press.
The turret is secured to the press in a hole made for it, and it slips in through ample slots and turns a bit to be held from moving up (much) with the ram. It's easy to grab the turret with dies installed and rattle it around (very slightly). The ram applies pressure only to the die in the front of the turret.

So I'm guessing that then the ram comes up under the front edge of the round disk, it's only applying pressure to the front edge and it could possibly or probably tilt the disk. Tilting the disk would move the die out of plumb, if that is happening.

Since I don't know, I ask.

Thanks for all the good input.
 
All moving parts have 'Tolerances',
Slop in the joints to allow for movement.
From handle/ram hinge pins to the turret in its socket.

Since you are ALWAYS pushing 'Up' on the turret, the 'Top Limit' is always where the turret hits the press.
Since its a one direction contact point, it's repeatable.

Turret presses work remarkably well for as simple as they are, and I think you will find yours can crank out repeatable, consistent rounds with no trouble.
 
I've had some very good luck with it. However, when I get a good load gone bad I look for reasons. Sudden increase in group size or extreme spread.
One other possible culprit is that I couldn't find my favorite for this 358 load Fed LRMatch primers, so I substituted CCI LRPrimers, which usually seem pretty consistent. If that can make a group go from a consistent 0.7 MOA to a 2.5 MOA, I really doubt but again I don't know.
So the press is just one place I'm looking.
Tonight I loaded some of the same 358 loads, and watched the turret disk as the ram goes up. It "appears" to lift all around the disk, not only on the front. So the advice that it's not a problem is probably good.
 
Prior to buying an LNL I used a Lee turret press to load thousands of 9mm, 45ACP and .223. Mine was pretty damned consistent and produced good reloads.
 
(edited for brevity)

So I'm guessing that then the ram comes up under the front edge of the round disk, it's only applying pressure to the front edge and it could possibly or probably tilt the disk. Tilting the disk would move the die out of plumb, if that is happening.
Click to expand...
When the front edge of the disk first raises up, the rear of the disk does not, but the front\AND rear rais up when full pressure is applied.

Once the bullet is seated (with the turret square in the turret ring) and centered/straight, the turret generally will remain square with the cartridge until the loaded round is withdrawn from the die.

To determine if all what I have described is happening as described, a runout gauge could verify concentricity.

Actually measuring how straight the loaded cartridge is will confirm the regularity of your ammunition.

Lost Sheep
 
The small amount of die turret "lift" in the housing is there by design and for about 99.99% of reloading purposes a non-issue. I've noticed that, with my LCT at least, the upwards movement is consistent from front to back, so I don't see any concentricity problems. For 25/50yd bullseye and NRA highpower rifle matches, my ammo is more than adequate.

Unless you are taking all the extra steps that benchrest shooters do, such as primer pocket gauging, case weighing, neck-turning and measuring for cartridge concentricity, you'll never notice a difference.
 
Does your shellholder contact the base of the die? If it contacts the base of the die and presses a little to insure that the round is fully processed, you win. There is enough play in the shell holders that you are simply indexing the flat base of the case against the flat surface of the shellholder, and if that case and shell holder meet, isn't that al that matters? that the thing reaches full distance into the die? There is no problem with a little bit of looseness or with a little bit of misalignment as you work unless you are working for benchrest thousand yard accuracy. To a large extent, the average shooter puts far too much concern into the level of precision that they have built into their equipment and loads. If a procedural change can add up to a few hundredths of an inch, and you manage to scrape out another MOA of accuracy by spending an extra thousand dollars, counting powder by grains, weighing, etc, how does this explain the many people who get MOA groups with factory stock rifles and ammo? If you can get MOA or so with your lee, what can you expect to gain by switching to an RCBS?
 
There is enough play in the shell holders that you are simply indexing the flat base of the case against the flat surface of the shellholder, and if that case and shell holder meet, isn't that al that matters?
Click to expand...

As always I suggest reloaders purchases a feeler gage and then learn to use it, that includes 'where to use it'. Because of the 'and that is all there is'. When a reloader has a problem sizing a case it is likely caused by the failure of the shell holder contacting the bottom of the die. I believe a reloader should measure the gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die to determine of the press w3on or the case won. And then of course there is the additional fractional turn of the die to increase the presser's ability to overcome the case's ability to resist sizing.

I agreed to help a reloader with a problem, when he arrived he noticed I had a 6 position turret press by Herter bolted to a stand. He said; "I thought your said you had a Rock Chucker", there was nothing for me to do but to remove the Herter and set up the Rock Chucker. There are times the press will not size the case, tha answer is not about using a stronger press, it is about reloading smarter.

F. Guffey
 
Yes the turret moves. But, it moves the same amount every time, so the variation should be nil. The ram of presses moves too, but it moves the same every time.There are many, many tools and machines that have moving parts that produce very precise results.:rolleyes:..
 
I've had my Lee Classic Turret for about 7 or 8 years now and have probably reloaded well over 50k rounds through it. I still hit what I aim at so I guess you could say its a non issue.
 
Well, thank you for the replies.

I think there is a big difference between high volume pistol shooters (or carbine contests at short range) and the long range hunting (or even target) shooters.

I load all my stuff with a loading block, and have taken the "spindle" off the Lee turret press. Just my preference, not a best way for anybody else.
I'm a low volume loader (50 at a sitting is a lot) so this works for me. I load both low pressure pistol for defense and target, high pressure pistol loads for hunting, and rifle calibers for a combination of hunting and target. No dedicated long range target loads, except as a novelty to see how I'm doing.

I'm old so there's no need for me to try and get repeated groups under 1/2 inch, because I can't hold or see what well with my hunting power scopes anyway.

This week I loaded, traveled to the distant range, and shot my newish loading of 358 Hoosier. To my delight the first three pops put holes in the 110 yard target within 1/2 inch, and I was so happy (since last weeks loads were two inchers, that I put it up without cleaning until hunting season. The load with this novelty cartridge recorded an average 2656 fps with a 180 grain Barnes TTSX in a 35 caliber ultra short cartridge. (1/10' shorter than the 358/308 parent case). Pretty good, and matched my first accurate load from two years ago that had quit working for me (like a hunting dog). So I'm happy about that.

Now my 30-06, which the powers have decided can be used all of a sudden in my state, is more powerful and a long range proposition with the better BC. That's my 400 - 500 yd rifle. But this little wildcat has my affection, and the loads came from the simple inexpensive Lee turret press with the turret disc that lifts a bit on the up stroke.

Thank you again for those who bothered to try and help me with my quandry when i was having accuracy issues.
 
Here's how to measure how much lift there is during operation of any press that has interchangeable tool heads/turrets.

P2080001_edited.JPG


That's my Dillon 650. I did a similar test on my classic turret, I just didn't take pictures, and didn't record my findings. But I can tell you that the amount of lift IS consistent from one to the next, AND it also levels out in the back of the turret disc when under full pressure like sizing and bullet seating.
 
I got a Lee turret press mebbe 14 years ago, and disabled the auto-index 13.9 years ago. I batch load so I have no idea what my RPH is (and don't care). I keep quite a few sized, primed, ready to charge brass for most of my reloaded cartridges, so if I've nuttin' to do I can size/deprime, flare and prime a bunch of brass. When I run low on ammo or want to try a different load, I can easily charge and seat a bunch of ammo quickly. My old style Lee turret press has assembled some fairly accurate ammo using this method (308 bolt gun that puts 4 rounds in a 7/8" to 15/16" @ 100 group quite often)...
 
My lee has never had an issue and I get very good results whether loading bulk pistol or precision rifle. The movement on the tool head is even all around so not a big deal.
 
My only issue with the Lee turret, was indexing....sold it years ago due the constant tweaking required for indexing. All turret duties were shifted to a Dillon 550...never had to tweak it, once, for consistent indexing.
 
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