Turning the tables on a BG, what would the police do?

S

sbryce

New member
Here is a hypothetical situation:

You are walking downtown in a not-so crowded area of town around 11:00PM when someone jumps out from behind a parked car, confronts you with a big knife and demands your wallet. You grab your trusty <insert favorite caliber here> <insert favorite brand of handgun here> from your <insert favorite method of concealed carry here> and prepare to defend yourself. The BG freezes at the sight of the gun. You now demand that he drop the knife and give you his wallet. The BG drops the knife, tosses his wallet in your general direction and, at your suggestion (or maybe not), turns and runs. Situation diffused, no shots fired. The police are notified. After they arrive, you explain what happened and point out the wallet sitting on the ground. (You never picked it up.) Do the police:

A) Arrest you for armed robbery, or
B) Thank you for getting the BG's ID?
 
I check for money and buy more ammo with it.hehehe

45ACP is there any other? Colt 1911 ditto?
Bianchi belt "I HAVE A GUN" pouch.

Yes I believe I would be arrested here in Kalifornia as you cannot easily get CCW. if he has a knife you could just shoot. You know what they say about bringing a knife to a gun fight. Serves the scumbag right. I dont think they would place you under arrest for armed robbery (you had no intent to keep wallet just to turn over to LEO for Id purposes, plus you never touched) just for illegal carry.

If wallet was full and knife was custom (FISK,DEAN,FITCH ETC..) I might just leave with knife and cash as payment for my trouble.

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Only two choices. Kill him and claim self defense or scare him off. You would likely get arrested if he claimed you made him give up the wallet. After all you had a gun and he claimed to have been unarmed.

"Being right aint worth two hoots in hell."

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
So what is stopping you from making a citizen's arrest? You already stopped the BG from commiting the crime. You have the BG at gunpoint, and could order him to sit on the ground til the police arrive. Once they do you can explain the situation (after they collect your pistol for "officer safety") and hopefully they will take the report. You John Q. Public will act as the complainant and see that the scumbag gets prosecuted and goes away for a stay in a lovely correctional institution, where he will no doubt learn more advanced techniques on the finer points of crime.
I guess this question boils down to where you reside and how the police take to you being armed.
 
Phillip now days you'd be the one sitting in jail and the BG would be out running the roads. It would be your word against his, and since you had a gun you would probably be in the wrong. I agree that in someplaces in Texas and maybe here in the Razorback we might could get away w/ it, but I feel most places you would probably be in deep doodo. I really feel that the powers to be do not want citizens helping make the street safer w/ such actions, and would make an example out of you to further discourage this kind of thing. You would be labled as a Gun toten' vigilante, and we just can't have these kind of people roaming the streets. JMO..YMMV

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RKBA
www.southernparty.org
 
The mistake would be to demand his wallet. Otherwise, no problem-at least where I'm at-it's not a problem.

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Maintain eternal vigilance. It is the people who are prisoners of their own ignorance about firearms that pose the greatest threat to our 2nd Amendment Rights.
 
If I were in CA I`d kill him and leave.If I were here I`d arrest,or kill him and stay.I have no business with his wallet.Either way,he won`t be needing it,and I don`t want it.The jailor ,or morgue,can bag it,and tag it,and him as well.


[This message has been edited by ghostsix (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Lots of those bad guys don't carry wallets and I.D., at least not their own.

How you are treated in a case of legitimate self defense will depend on the jurisdiction in which the event occurs. If you live in a jurisdiction that would send the likes of Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, etc., etc., ad nauseum, to D.C., then what kind of treatment would you expect?? If you, in this country of free travel, continue to live in such a jurisdiction that is governed by effete Democrats, then you just have to take your medicine.

In my backwards, little cracker-filled Southern town, I'd probably be given a parade around the town square and a Citation for Meritorious Service!!

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Shoot to kill; they'll stop when they're dead!
 
SBryce -
O.K. here is one cops opinion.
1. - If you are still there when I show up at the scene, you explain what happened, you point out where BG dropped his wallet, I get wallet, I take report, I go find BG, BG goes to jail (does not collect $200), you are witness #1 on my case record to the District Attorney on a complaint of attempt armed robbery.
2. - You follow some of the other folks' advice here and (a) shoot the BG - you might get away with that depending on the jurisdiction and how good your attorney is at presenting your case to the D.A.; (b) shoot the BG, then leave - see Bernhard Goetz for answer to this one; (c) BG runs off, you take money from his wallet and leave - I'm sorry which one was the badguy again.
My answer, do what you think is right but I would rather that you stay there and act like the good citizen that your are.
Ya'll be careful.
 
DeputyKC has it covered. Asking for the wallet sounds strange to me. Killing someone is not an option unless you could prove imminent deadly force. ie... him coming at you with the knife, trying to stab or slash you etc..
 
KC, bad guy is the first one to pull weapon and try to rob you.

Those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
 
Oberkommando,
Absolutely, the badguy is the one who tried (!) to commit a crime. The good guy is the one who had the forethought, presence of mind, and ability to prevent the crime from occurring.
No matter how satisfying it might feel, no matter how "poetic" the justice would be when we turn the tables, no matter what the badguy might "want to do unto you", we are not the criminal - and never, never, never forget that. When any of us does wrong - it is reflected on us all, so we must always "do the right thing" (God I love using Spike Lee quotes in these conversations knowing what he thinks about RTKBA issues).
Ober (if I might call you by your first name ;) )ask any cop about what it was like after Rodney King became a household name. I have never beat someone (with a PR-24 baton or otherwise) and yet everytime I made contact with the public, you could see the fear in their eyes. Do we, as responsible gun owners who want to pass our 2nd amendment rights on to our progeny, want more people scared of us? I don't think so.
I reiterate my previous position, protect yourself and your loved ones from harm, and then be the good witness in court against the true badguy.
 
All of you, especially Deputy KC, have really helped clarify this in my mind. The idea of taking the wallet was strictly for the purpose of attempting to get his ID. As I play this out in my mind, it now goes like this:

I pull my trusty 9mm Baretta out from my <wherever I finally decide to carry it> and prepare to defend myself. The BG freezes at the sight of the gun. If there is a second party nearby who can get to a phone quickly, the BG is ordered to drop the knife and get down on the ground face down with his hands over his head. I step back to a safe distance. If the BG runs, he runs. The laws in my state will not allow me to shoot an escaping BG. If he complies, it is hard to give the police a better description than the actual BG laying on the ground. If he lunges at me, he gets 9mm hollow points center of mass until he decides that complying and/or running is a better option.

If a phone is not readily available, he is encouraged to leave, period.

Better yet, as the BG crouches behind the parked car, watching me walk his way, he contemplates the fact that there are 30,000 concealed carry permits in a state with a population of under 2 million. He does some quick math in his head. Figuring that at least half of the population of the state is too young to get a CCW, there is about 1 chance in 30 that I have a gun tucked under my jacket. BG thinks better of it and decides to look for gainful employment. I like it! The gun has served it purpose, and I didn't even have to confront the BG with it. Life is good.
 
Here in Cali, you'd have been better off to stay in bed that day.

If you are one of the fortunate few to have a CCW, and you have some political clout and the incident wasn't publically known, you'd have no problem.

A CCW and no political clout...you're screwed, will lose the CCW and maybe worse.
No CCW....jail time....probably lose your right to own a gun.

If you shoot him, with or without CCW....you're screwed. Even if self-defense you'll lose time, money and your privacy....your life will be a mess for ages. Oh yeah, Cali just passed a new law that makes it a felony to not report a death, regardless of circumstances or your involvement.

There are a lot of things to consider ;)



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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
out of your back pocket you pull a pair of handcuffs and request the BG to try on the jewelry

once BG is securly detained to lamp post
call the police

dZ
 
Hi, guys,

DZ - In many (most?) states, it is illegal for anyone but a LEO to carry handcuffs.

For some of the folks and the "hypothetical situation":

A point no one mentioned. What were you doing in that part of town? Why were you there at 11 PM? Were you on legitimate business? Do you often go there? You may say that is none of anyone's business, but if you are in the "wrong" part of town, and carrying a gun (CCW or not), the DA will claim you were an gun crazy fanatic out "hunting" an innocent victim.

It should be obvious what "wrong part of town" means. If you are in an area not inhabited or frequented by persons of your race, you will be accused of going there only to make trouble. And believe me, either way, things will be a lot tougher if you pop a cap on someone who does not share your pigmentation or lack of it.

And if you shoot, I will almost guarantee you will be arrested. The street cops aren't going to be nice to you. They have you, the gun, and a dead body. You can figure to spend a lot of time in an orange jumpsuit while the DA thinks about what charges to bring, especially if the situation is the one above and there are a thousand people picketing the DA's office.

I get the feeling that some of you are just itching to blow someone away, and if I were you I would not tell the world about it. Get over that feeling, fast! And right now! If you are going to carry a gun, you have to balance a real need against some kind of "tough guy" movie image. Remember, the GG in the movies has the script writer on his side, so he never gets arrested.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
Jim Keenan and Deputy KC:

It sure is nice to see some common sense and street wise smarts on the board. Great posts gentlemen.
 
KC my original reply was in jest, this thread is a little too serious I have a whole family of LEO's former undersheriff, Det, Swat, and a few just plain old street cops. My first cousin had to kill bg while he (the bg) was cuffed. My brother will enter academy in Jan. I am well versed in common sense and have a little legal knowledge from these guys. I had no intention of being Paul Kersey.
 
Ober,
I had no doubt that you understand the seriousness of the scenario at hand, but others may not. Unfortunately, many in the public arena consider all firearms enthusiasts "gun nuts" with itchy trigger fingers, I only wish to dissuade anyone from thinking we are more of the same.
Congrats to your brother on his new career, I wish him safety, a compassionate heart, and the strength to make a difference.
Ya'll be careful.
 
Wow.

I wish him safety, a compassionate heart, and the strength to make a difference.


That was beautiful, and I feel blessed as well. Thank you.

Spartacus says "Common sense is not common," every time I start ranting...I urge those who have it, to employ it.
 
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