Truncated Cone in Lever Action

M

Moloch

New member
We all know that pointy bullets in a tubular fed gun are a big no-no for obvious reasons. Buuuuut......

I came across a great deal for Fiocchi Truncated .357 Bullets, I think loading those 142 grainers with a near-max load of VV-110 would be really damn cool and should shoot really straight out of my 24'' 92. Also tried a test cartridge and it cycles and loads so smooth you would not believe it. :D

Now I don't know what to do - would you feel save using those bullets in a tube magazine gun? The Tips are about the size of the primers but the tips are rounded off and smooth and recoil in a 24'' heavy octagon is barely noticeable.

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Hmmmmm?

Ya'know, I think you'd likely be OK. I shot 158 gr LSWC from a variety of sources through my Marlin 1894 and I suspect the point on those projectiles was sometimes about what your slugs appear from your pics. Your slugs seem no more pointed than a wide variety of rifle soft points as used in the 30-30, the .35 Rem and so and have been used for years. The greatest risk is with POINTED soft points, spitzer like, and yours seem a long way from that.
 
Good point (pun intended), a 30 caliber softpoint should have about the same tip size as the truncated cone bullets I want to use in my .357, and the 30-30 uses large rifle primers so the primers would be even more exposed to the bullet tips than with .357's and their small pistol primers.-

You mentioned the pointy LSWC, you mean this bullet style:

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In any case, I'm going to load a couple rounds with primers and bullets only and cycle them through my gun a couple dozen times and see if there are any indentations on the primers.
 
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We all know that pointy bullets in a tubular fed gun are a big no-no for obvious reasons.
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Yes, but I do think that is a preponderance of caution. And, since almost no-one uses pointy's in tubular magazine firearms, we don't know for sure. I follow the collective caution, while also agreeing that we have yet to know of anyone, with modern cartridges, having an issue and there are in fact folks (more and more) who ignore the caution and use pointy's and have lived to tell about it.

All that said, I don't think there is an issue with the OPs bullet. It takes a good thumb to dent a primer, and more to set them off. If it was me, I'd not use Federal primers, but again, preponderance of caution.
 
I would be very surprised if you had one of those bullets set off a primer, particularly in a .357 magnum rifle.

I would be slightly concerned about the fact that they are FMJ and so the tips are as hard as the rest of the bullet, but the size and shape in comparison to the primer works against having an accident.

While I wouldn't recommend it, you can crush a primer nearly flat without setting it off, IF the force is applied smoothly and evenly across the whole face of the primer,

IT is the sudden, crush of the primer pellet (in the center of the primer) that sets it off.

Bullets with narrow, (pointed) HARD tips can replicate the firing pin and so are dangerous in the usual tube magazine. Remember that it is not ONLY recoil that slams primers into bullets in the tube mag, it is also the feed cycle.

A bullet tip the size of the primer, flat or rounded rarely is an issue. A spitzer type tip if made of a hard material (bullet jacket, etc) CAN BE.

Note the recent pointed plastic (polymer) tips used on some slugs. Gives the aerodynamic advantage of the spitzer tip, but is soft and won't set off a primer...

Other than you have them, what's the point of shooting FMJ from a .357 Mag rifle, anyway??
 
44 AMP said:
Other than you have them, what's the point of shooting FMJ from a .357 Mag rifle, anyway??
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Science of course! :D

Just kidding, what I like about them is they cycle and load wonderfully smoothly through my lever action, better than any other projectile I've ever tried. Plus it is also a spitzer-ish type of bullet at a perfect weight and if it proves accurate through my gun I think it would be fun to try to get it out to 150 and 200 with a blisteringly hot load of VV N110.-

And besides that, I think if I stuff them into 38SPC cases I got a super slick load for competitions manual rifles open sights division.
I got the slickest bullets in town! :D
 
Magazine detonation with pointed bullets happens because the ammo moves forward in the magazine under recoil then is pushed back down on the ammo behind it. I'm not sure I would worry about recoil induced detonation in anything other than a very lightweight rifle or a harder kicking cartridge like 30-30 or larger. In any event, if the meplat of the bullet is larger than the primer, you have nothing to worry about. If the meplat is smaller than the primer diameter, you should be leery of doing it. Figure out how much difference there is between nose profile of the bullets you are looking at and the supposedly safe round nosed ammo and judge accordingly.
 
Besides the column of ammo shifting back and forth under recoil, there is also the "sudden stop" when a round is released onto the carrier (lifter) of the ammo in the tube. Literally a round's length of movement driven by the magazine tube spring then a sudden stop. This can be more and at a higher velocity that the rounds in the tube shifting under recoil.

The only "tube detonation" I've read about was decades ago and involved too pointed bullets in a .348 Winchester. If remember correctly it might have been more than just one round and the shooter lost fingers. The .348 has significantly more recoil than .30-30 class rounds.

I think there, it was the recoil more than anything else besides using the really wrong bullet.

One thing I've always found interesting is the old Remington pumps 14 and 141 which had tube magazines but could safely use pointed bullets.
I'm sure Rem's patent on that is long gone, but no one has seemed to bother to do it, since.
 
So what I did was load 5 rounds just with primers only and I cycled them about 5 or 6 times. The primers still looked pristine so I think I'm good to go. 357 recoil is barely noticeable so I don't think that is going to be significant factor.

So I loaded a couple for some accuracy testing. Had some nickel coated Magtech brass lying around so I used those cases.
I think they look really pretty. :D

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Non-destructive testing never hurts anything. :D

Flat tip, about the size of the primer (no small point to poke in) light recoil from .357 mag, I doubt you will have any problems in a tube magazine rifle with those bullets in that caliber.
 
Many thousands of TC bullets went down the barrels of my levers in my years of Cowboy Shooting, most were original Winchesters.
 
They will be ok. Width of flat nose will not detonate a primer. To start with chain reaction is something that can happen, no sure fire. In tube mags in pistol calibers I only remember seeing one case. It happened in a original Ruger 44 carbine. Late 60s early 70s. There was outfit selling AP ammo for revolvers. Bullet was shaped like a center punch. They came 6 on a card ( this may have been manf samples ) expensive too. Anyway say pic of Ruger laying on blanket after blowing mag tube.
 
A couple weeks ago I took out my 94 in 30-30. I shot a number of factory loads from Winchester and Remington. All had round nose bullets with a much smaller (pointier) tip than your truncated bullets and I didn’t blow up. I think you’re fine.
 
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