Troubleshooting antique Winchester m1894 Takedown Rifle

[Swede68]

Hi guys!
I need some help and input. As my nick implies I live in Sweden, so Winchester-savvy gunsmiths are not exactly located on every corner.

I am fairly competent when it comes to guns, I have been working on my own Colt Single Action revolvers (both percussion models and the SAA) for many years.

I just bought a Winchester m1894 Takedown Rifle in very good condition. The gun was manufactured in 1897 according to the list on proofhouse.com.
I testshot it today, and accuracy seems perfectly satisfactory.

However, there is a mechanical/feeding problem that I would like your input on. Also, a link to an exploded view of ANY .30-30 (or similar length) caliber OLD Winchester m1894 would be greatly apprecciated. I have found exploded views, but only of post-64 94´s.

Now on to the problem(s). When loading the rifle, all goes smooth. The first round also cykles onto the carrier okey, and is lifted up towards the chamber.
Part A of the problem is that the cartridge does not want to slide into the chamber, but instead it hangs up on the tip of the bullet above the chamber. The reason seems to be the sloping angle of the carrier, the case simply rests at too much of an angle to feed into the chamber, I wonder if there should be something on the carrier which places the cartridge at a more horizontal angle at the carriers topmost position?
Part B of the problem is that once the first round is fired and I want to cykle the mechanism, a bullet from the magazine slides out underneath the carrier. For some reason the cartridge isn´t kept in the magazine until the carrier is at its lowest position, as it should be. There is a small knob at the bottom of the mag-tube cutout in the frame, which works in unison with the carrier (and it does seem to work. I expect that this knob should keep the cartridge from exiting the magazine too early, but for some reason it does not perform that task.

Any input regarding the described problems would be greatly aprecciated. The Takedown Rifle is beautiful and I´m very excited about it. Now I just need to make it function properly.

I understand that parts shouldn´t be too hard to come by for this rifle. But I need to know whether there are parts missing or broken before I go out and try to locate them.

The pics aren´t the best, but what looks like dirt and damage is actually tons of grease that I will have to clean out of the mechanism. The gun has been "stationary" since 1979 which explains the grease, and I have uninterupted history on it (here in Sweden) since 1945 (with documentation).

Best regards!
Anders Olsson

 

[PetahW]

I would opine that your chambering issue arises due to cycling the lever too slow/tenuously, ILO rapidly, with determination.

* * * * * * * * * * *

The cartridge in the magazine, popping out into theaction, under the lifter/carrier, is almost always caused by the cartridge stop finger, atop the inside top of the lower link, being too short, whether from wear or manufacturing tolerance stackup.

The stop can be viewed & worked on via driving out the forward pin in the lower link & dropping the forward end clear of the receiver.

The stop can be lengthened by peening the side(s), or a little weld buildup.
Excess length, either way, can be dressed down (bit-by-bit) with a file, until the gun is operational again.

Alternatively, a replacement lower link can be installed - but that's no guarantee of a lasting fix.

.

 

[Swede68]

Excellent, thanks!
Regarding the chambering issue, you may very well be perfectly correct. Since it is an antique gun, and since this was the first time on the range with it, I did not want to put any excessive stress on it, so I was most certainly very careful and slow working the action.

While I was awaiting answers from you gentlemen, I have totally disassembled the rifle and from examining how the gun works and what parts does what I was allready suspecting that little protrusion on the lower link. Cartridge stop finger sounds like a perfect name for it, although it doesn´t do its job on my particular rifle. Adding material there shouldn´t be a problem.

I´ll need to get a new firing pin, the tip of the old one had broken off. While the rifle fired perfectly on the range, it was probably allready damaged. The cases and primers including the imprint from the firingpin looks absolutely perfect.

Other than the above mechanical issues, I am amazed at the mechanical condition of the gun. It is not mint in any way, but there are very few signs of wear. Some of the internal parts did struggle a bit when I was taking it apart. The bolt for instance refused to come all the way out without me tapping it a bit. I haven´t had time to clean off all the grease, so I´m not sure whether it is a speck of rust or just dirt that made it bind a bit in the receiver. Same thing for the firing pin, it did not want to come out of the bolt without a bit of tapping.

Well, I think this will make an excellent little shooter once I´ve sorted out a few issues.

Tips and ideas are very welcome. Here are a few more pictures of the gun (although none of them very good!). If someone could identify the exact model for me that would be greatly aprecciated. It must be a Takedown rifle, but if there are any other designations on this particular rifle then I´d like to know.

Anders Olsson

 

[Tim R]

You are right, a nice rifle.

 

[Swede68]

Just wanted to say thanks for the help PetahW. You were bang on regarding the cartridge stop finger. I had some material welded onto it and then filed it down to the correct size and shape myself.
The new firingpin from Dixie Gunworks arrived a couple of days ago, and I reassembled the gun yesterday.
Tried to test the function with fired cases first (for safetys sake) and got double feeds all the time, so for a second or so I was worried that I might have more serious problems. That is..., until I realised that the double feed was due to the spent cases being too short. With live rounds (and the barrel pointed in a safe direction) the gun cykled perfectly.

I still need to go to the range and test it out, because I´m not sure that the tip of my new firiningpin is the correct length (it should be, but if there is wear on the bolt I won´t know for sure without testfiring it). It does look okey, so I´m not worried. Just want to make sure that the pin doesn´t penetrate the primer.

Anyway, thanks for the help!

Anders Olsson

 

[stu925]

That's a very nice model 94. I've always preferred the 1/2 mag takedown rifles they just look a bit classier to me. Hard to say from the pictures but the rear sight looks like a lyman folding leaf to me, I couldn't tell you with out a close up what the front sight is. The rifle is in very nice shape. If you don't have a copy of it already, you might see if you can pick up a copy of The Winchester Book by Georege Madis.

Stu

 

[Swede68]

Thanks Stu, will look into getting the book.

The rearsight is a three leaf folding one. Looks like it has been on the rifle for ages, which in no way meens it is original.
The front sight has a small golden bead, and actually gives me a pretty good sightpicture (in reasonable lighting conditions).

The gun is going to be used for hunting albeit only for "light" duty.

Anders Olsson

 

[PetahW]

The rifle pictured appears to be a Model 1894 Rifle, with at least three factory options: Takedown, shotgun butt ILO crescent butt, and 1/2 magazine ILO full-length.

IDK, re: the sights, w/o some closeup pics; & if that bbl's longer than 26" it too is "special order".

.

 

[Swede68]

PetahW, the barrel is indeed 26"

I´ve included a few detailed pictures of the sights, and the markings on the gun (I realise now that I forgot the marking on the lever of the tubularmag, but IIRC it reads "Patented xxxxxx 1893").

I do wonder whether the finish is original, especcially the receiver looks a bit suspicious to me. Where there is wear, the blueing has a somewhat streaky finish (as if brushed on). The finish is very "black" rather than the blue I am used to on for instance Remington or Colt percussion revolvers. Also, see the marking on the upper tang, I do believe I see signs of polishing OVER the markings and a slightly rougher surface than I would expect from the factory. It may well be in my head, but I would aprecciate a second opinion.

The barrel, mag and buttplate "looks" okey as far as finish is concerned. I do feel that the finish is more black than blue, but that may very well have been a standard finish (as opposed to a more "deluxe" finish with a bluer tint).

Anyway, refinished or not, It is a nice shooter, and I do enjoy the take-down aspect (though I will probably never have any real use for it, it should make cleaning the barrel easier!).

Any input is aprecciated!

Anders Olsson

 

[Swede68]

Three more pics.

Regards!
Anders Olsson