Trouble on the Right Trap

T

TheKlawMan

Moderator
I am trying to figure out why I miss right traps so badly; not that I am so good on the left but I am getting to where I shoot 8 or 9 for stations 1 & 2. (I am a right hander shooting right handed with some eye dominance problems which may in fact not be the problem.)

Per Joel Etchen's sight, one cause can be that when a righty swings for to the right they have a tendency to push the gun away from their cheek with their left hand. http://www.joeletchenguns.com/tips.htm I am going to have a shooting buddy check to see if I seem to being doing this.

I might also try setting up on the right with a hold point further to the right so that I don't feel that I have to rush to get on target, which I would think may encourage a push.

Does anyone else have an idea of what I may be doing? I realize that I have a tendency to shoot to soon on far right targets with the result that I shoot behind them, but I think I can correct that by simply working on giving them some lead. I also tend to stop the gun, which I think is becasue I developed a habit of aiming my old 870. That is something else that I am working on and I think is improving. One of the bad habits that Zippy used to warn one might head off by taking lessons early on, as I wished I should have, and with a decent intructor.

At least the last trip out I was fortunate to have loaded many of my hulls with a golden bb.
 
I mean when I am on station 4, and even worse on 5, I miss a lot. It seems that I miss more when they are hard right crossers headed to the right stake. I also do poorly on birds thrown straight out of the house or to the left, when I am on stations 4 and 5, but it seems that I do the worse with the right crossers on those stations
 
C, ol' buddy, yep, I'm thinking 16-yard trap 'cause that's what K-Law mostly shoots (w/ his new Citori XS Skeet... go figure). There was a time when I competed in ATA events; but, now, I'm well along the road to recovery.

From his OP I didn't know if he was having trouble with the typical killer, the hard right from Post 5, or what. He was talking like there was more than one trap machine and I didn't think he was shooting the bunker.

K, my friend, can you get someone to stand behind you to give you clue what's happening? You could be lifting your head, have a wrong foot position, have a wrong hold point, be swinging like a little girl and/or seeing the wrong lead. It's hard to tell what's wrong over the internet. Yes, many new trap shooters have trouble with the hard right from Post-5 (and 4). Or, they over compensate for the hard right and then start getting bit in the butt by the straight away.
 
Zippy, I think I understand what you are saying and especially the bit about having someone stand behind me. The reason for the Skeet gun is just that. While I still mainly shoot 16 yard Trap, I want to shoot skeet more and more. One reason that I haven't done more skeet is I wonder if it would cause more confusion to get into it before ironing out the problems in trap - which don't seem to be going away but I feel I am on the verge of getting something right.

You could be lifting your head, have a wrong foot position, have a wrong hold point, be swinging like a little girl and/or seeing the wrong lead.
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I think it is likely a combination of all the above and plan to work on one thing at a time. If possible I will get out a bit earlier and try to shoot by myself and shoot them all from 5. At the same time that I keep cafeful notes as to things like hold position and foot stance so as to make it easier to figure out what makes the most difference.

A fellow I shot with a couple of weeks ago, who mentioned that he once had a 300 straight, offered that he had been watching me and that I should take a more open stance with my feet and that my gun was stopping.
 
KlawMan, here's a thought for you on the 16 yard trap straightaways, especially when you cheat a little right for that hard right post 5 shot and then have to swing back to a straight, swinging through the bird and maybe overshooting....(of course, if you don't cheat to the right, it shouldn't be an issue, but we all anticipate sometimes....) An old timer told me once that a straight away from any post is not really a straight away, but it LOOKS like it. His comment was that for a right hander, you should shoot the right side of the bird, and vice versa for lefties. He equated it to putting where you have a short putt with a tiny break and you aim for the edge of the hole but don't give up the cup. I've used that technique, and it works for me, but don't know if that's cuz the backside of my pattern picks it up, or I kill it with the center of the pattern. Zippy, what's your thoughts on that.... I haven't heard it from anyone else. As far as hard rights, +1 for Zippy's thoughts. Could be several issues. Have someone watch you.
 
An old timer told me once that a straight away from any post is not really a straight away, but it LOOKS like it.
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That reminds me of Jess Briley's phantom bird theory -- I didn't understand it, either. It's my experience that at every post, there is a straight away target; but, it's climbing -- perhaps it's the climbing aspect that he was talking about. A lot of folks have missed because of shooting under a straightaway.
His comment was that for a right hander, you should shoot the right side of the bird, and vice versa for lefties.
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I've not heard that, but it doesn't mean that it might not work. My background is in Skeet, where you learn the leads for each target. I approach trap the same way, but the leads aren't as drastically different as they are with Skeet's crossing shots. The big difference being, because of the nature of the games, that I use a sustained lead in Skeet and a swing-through in trap.
He equated it to putting where you have a short putt with a tiny break and you aim for the edge of the hole but don't give up the cup. I've used that technique, and it works for me, but don't know if that's cuz the backside of my pattern picks it up, or I kill it with the center of the pattern.
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Typically, at 16-yards you get a pretty good idea of where you're hitting the targets. Of course, the more open your choke, the less the breaks will tell you. If you're not sure where you're hitting, perhaps a tighter choke will help tell you what's happening.

K-law, in my previous (#5), I neglected to mention the universal requirement: follow through. You might have a dead gun adding to your problems. My typical problem at Post-5 was holding too high. Our club had a prevailing breeze from the left and it caused the hard right birds to get under my barrel if I wasn't paying attention.
 
Sweetshot and Zippy, Your thoughts are both worth going back over a few times. For me, I am feeling pretty good that I think I know of what you speak. It's good advice.

Z. I don't know what you mean by a dead gun. I think I know the cause for stopping. I became enamored with aiming the gun and pulling the trigger when I saw what I was looking for, as opposed to quickly swinging to the bird and shooting. Something like that. It is hard to describe but looking at the bird, ignoring the barrel and the bead, and shooting without thinking seems to work best for me. Still, I keep going back to drawing a bead on the bird.

As for shooting straight aways on the side of the trap your station is located, I will try that.

I may also go back to a full choke. As is I am breaking too many with that errant "golden" BB and learn little from it as to whether I am shooting; high low, left or right.
 
Sometimes a club around here will have a guest instructor to diagnose problems like you described. Perhaps they do that in your area, also.
 
Zippy, I thought that was what you meant by a dead gun but have found it best to ask and not guess. I suspect that is a priority problem that I have to work on.

Where I shoot it is almost a crime to call it a "club", langenc. I have taken a lesson from one of the instructors that works out of it and it was less than overwhelming. I may have to bust the piggy bank open and take a few lessons from some good instructors.

That or it may be fun and worthwhile to join one of the "migrant" clubs in the area. That is what I call some clubs that shoot at different ranges. One used to shoot at the nearest range but has moved to a club further out with better equipment.
 
K-law, IINM, all the ranges or "clubs" in your area are privately owned commercial ventures, not owned/run by the members. Back in the late 60s, I was a "member" at Triple-B (then International T & S) -- membership entitled you to shoot in members only events, and little more.
 
That is kind of the impression I got, Zippy, that they are privately owned commercial ventures that are open to the public. Some clubs like Tri County, San Clemente Trap and Skeet, and Golden Bears Trap Club then negotiate preferred rates and facilities for their members with ranges such as Triple B and Prado. Something like that I believe. I know that certain fields and the patterning board at Triple B are reserved for members.
 
I think everybody gave you solid advice...

I might suggest some good DVD's ....that have the "eye cam" technology ...there are a lot of good ones on Trap, Skeet, etc...

but my hunch - like others....is for you to open your stance a little (move the back foot - a couple of inches further back ) but make sure you're not getting your stance wider - or you'll lock up. Don't change your hold point, don't cheat on it, or it'll cause other problems --- just open the stance ...and concentrate on follow-thru ...even accentuate it ....vs a "dead gun" or stopping the gun like others advised...

Pulling the trigger is the start of the shot ...not the end of it ...." Follow Thru" ....and think about follow thru in terms of "4 or 5 Feet" ....you're only shooting one target at a time...exaggerating it, is not a problem right now. You can fine tune it later...
 
Thanks, Jim. Actually I had been looking at what seems to be a pretty good DVD by Phil Kiner about a month ago but had to return it to the owner. It spends a lot of time on follow through but at the time I didn't pay much attention to that section. Now I will as I finally bought my own copy just this last week.

As for the footwork, I will heed your words. At home I noticed in the last few days that just a small change in my stance and suddenly I have no more problems with my mid bead lining up directly behind the front in a perfect snowman, whether that is good or not. doing it like this, I think I am doing pretty as you suggest, but instead of dropping the rear foot slightly back I moved the leading foot slightly forward and stood so that I faced the target just a tad more. It seems that when I do, I am looking more through the focal point of my lens as opposed to looking through an area just to the inside of the bridge of my nose. Now, if I want to push my nose over a hair to the right I can even get the mid bead a bit onto the left side of the center of the front bead.

If this continues, the beads lining up naturally, I think I may be onto something. As for the problem on the right, I suspect several things but the primary culprit is the most fundamental - the stopped gun. It's not just you guys telling me that it sounds like a lack of follow through is the problem, but, as I think I mentioned up above, a guy I met about a week ago pointed out the problem with my gun stopping. The only other suggestion he had was a slightly more open stance with my left foot pointed slightly more to the left.
 
Not saying that you do ....but don't overlook the "space between your ears" ...or the mental aspect of this repetive game....

a. you have to stay focused, hard focus on the leading edge ( not the butt ) of the clay...
b. don't beat yourself mentally ...you have to believe station 4 and 5 are as easy as station 2 .../ don't let those negative thoughts creep in ....
c. its easy to go 25 straight ...when you shoot one at a time ..../ if you start counting targets...and then tense up ...as you get to about 18 ...then its not your best plan...
d. expect to break 25 straight.../ make it a solid goal ...not a whm ...

and all the fundamental stuff too ....

personally, if I can't start on station 2 ...I'll try and start on station 4 or 1 ...2 is my highest confidence station ...and I want to start strong if I can. I never want to start on 3 or 5 --- until I see how the birds are flying ...wind effect ...background ...etc... / personally I miss more Trap birds on station 3 than any other station ...I don't stay aggressive ..and I tend to shoot over them...( station 2 on Trap ...is my station 7 on Skeet..) it should always be 100% regardless of wind, etc... or I'm not focused and its going to be a long day ....( like the old joke ...I shot so bad today, I'd commit suicide, but it might take me more than 2 shells to get it done......) ....and somedays, you just have to beat back those bad thoughts...laugh it off ..or whatever works for you...
 
Jim brings up an important aspect of shooting: the mental game. Along that vein, visualization can be an aid in training and competition. One method, that can be employed anywhere, is to close your eyes and visualize breaking targets. Start with you foot position and finish with follow through. Do this for every target presentation.

Another method is what I call eye poaching: On the firing line, instead of watching the other targets to see if they break, take advantage of the situation. While the others are shooting, start with you gaze focused on your hold point, get your focus on the target's flight until you see the proper lead, imagine shooting and visualize your follow through. After the around, instead of 25 targets, you brain has practiced on a hundred. And, you didn't pay any more nor have the extra hulls to load. YMMV
 
good point Zippy ...

( or just threaten the gun ...with a rope ...tell it if it doesn't behave...you'll drag it behind your car thru a gravel parking lot ) ....

I have to threaten my .410 O/U from time to time...it tends to get a mind of its own.../ and it tends to get mouthier if I get to about a 21 ...and my teeth start to grind a little ...the gun starts talking to me...

" you can't do this - who do you think you're kidding.. "...
".... sell me to a real shooter ...you're pitiful ..."...

don't let it get into your mind...teach it a lesson .../ tell it you're going to sell it to a Trap shooter...that'll teach it ...
 
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