Trivia question...what the heck is this thing?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cornered rat

Moderator
What kind of cartridge is it? Yesterday, I saw an old woman with a .25
autoloader. She had a half-full box of East European milsurp ammo for it and
some un-ID'd new ammo. All had brass cases and jacketed round nose bullets.
The .25 pistol was fairly large, about the size of a TT33 and the cases, as
the illustration done from memory shows http://dd-b.net/olegv/draw/25bottleneck.jpg , were extremely bottlenecked
and quite long. I think the gun dated from 1930s or earlier. Used
single-stack magazines. Unfortunately, I did not get a good look at it nor
could I ask questions. Any quesses as to what this was?

------------------
Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos
 
As I have always suspected Colonel Kleb, formerly of the KGB and recently of SPECTRE, survived her confrontation with 007 during the last scene in From Russia with Love.

Cornered Rat you are in extreme danger!

Watch out for the poisoned stiletto in the toe of her boot, the 25 auto is only a distraction.
 
It does not look like it will even feed from a magazine unless there is virtually no feed ramp in the gun.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Because...unless that "BB" was a long dart (or fletchette), that soft brass neck would probably get crushed in the chamber during the loading process.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I thought Velo-dog, too...but that round is straight. I suspect that the round doesn't exist, as I saw it in a dream. Was justy wondering if that dream-gun had basis in reality. Don't even start me on that dreamwhen I found a 40s SMG at a garage sale and was trying to figure out how to make it transferrable....all while asleep!
 
Actually the Russians have two rounds that are similar to what you have drawn. Designed, in part, by another Oleg. According to The New World of Russian Small Arms & Ammo by Charlie Cutshaw the 4.5x39mm (SSP-1M)and the 5.56x40mm (APS) are what you have drawn.
'The cartridge was designed by the team of Pytor Sazonov and Oleg Kravcheno, who received a USSR State Prize in 1983 for their work, along with Vladimir Simonov, designer of the SPP-1 pistol [underwater pistol].
In their initial experiments, the designers found that standard bullets fired underwater had very limited range and would never work in underwater firearms. The designers therefore began to look at patterning their bullets after the long darts used by divers for spear fishing. This proved to be the solution, and the cartridges for both the SPP-1 pistol and APS underwater assault rifle were designed using the "dart" bullet.
The SPS cartridge fires a 203-grain (13.2-gram) steel bullet at a muzzle velocity of approximately 820 fps (250 mps). the bullet is not spin stabilized; stability is obtained by a cavitation bubble that forms along the interface between the long axis of the bullet and the water through which it passes. According to Russian sources, the bullet does not stabilize at all in open air and has a range of only some 20 meters in that medium, along with degraded accuracy. Effective range of the SPS bullet underwater depends on depth and concomitant water pressure.
SPS cartridges are loaded into the SPP-1 pistol in four-round clips. Basic load for the pistol is four clips.
SPS 4.5x39Rmm Cartridge Specifications
Cartridge Weight 278 gr. (18 gm.)
Cartridge Length 5.7 in. (145mm)
Case Length 39mm
Muzzle velocity (In Air) 820 fps (250 mps)
bullet Weight 203 gr. (13.2 gm.)

The MPS underwater cartridge was developed in conjunction with the SPS pistol cartridge ... and the principles ...are identical to the pistol cartridge. the differences are in scale; the rifle cartridge is slightly larger in diameter and overall length. the case is rimless in order to function in the fully automatic APS underwater assault rifle. Given the larger case volume, the velocity of the 120mm-long MPs bullet is appreciably greater than that of the SPS pistol bullet, withconcomitantly greater range both underwater and in open air. Effective range underwater is a maximun of 30 meters at 5 meters depth and 100 meters in open air.
5.66x39mm MPS Specifications
Cartridge Weight 398 gr. (26gm.)
Cartridge Length 5.9 in. (150mm)
Case Length 39mm
Muzzle Velocity 1,197 fps (365 mps)
Bullet Weight App. 284 gr. (18.5gm.)
Muzzle Energy 788 ft. lbs. (581J)

This is an excellent reference on many unknown and obscure arms that are starting to show up on CNN etc. According to Mr Cutshaw (my copy was autographed at Knob Creek :)) there may be a second updated edition coming. He says he has quite a bit on additional information since writing the book. He is also bringing out a book on Izmash <sp>. Due out around the begining of next year IIRC.
 
The amount of info to be found on these forums is amazing. How do people know this stuff? I'm impressed, anyway!

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top