I plan on purchasing a handgun from a family member. He is from ME and I live in PA. I've done a few in state handgun transfers that run about $20. My question is should I expect a similar fee or is it going to be more expensive doing it between different states? He will be here in PA when we do the transfer. Would anyone here know or should I just make a trip out to the LGS and find out from him?
Transfer fee question
- Thread starter ChiefMuzz
- Start date
Is he bringing the gun with him? If yes, why do the transfer through a dealer? Just do up a bill of sale in duplicate. Have him bring the gun with him if he wasn't planning on it. The only way this could be a possible problem is if one of you are a FFL dealer and if that were the case you wouldn't be asking this question. He can LEGALY transport the gun from Maine to Pa according to federal law. After all this is a private sale between family members
I do believe that is bad advice, Don, and if he followed it he could be in violation of the law. Family members have no special right to transfer a handgun, for a private sale or transfer, both the seller and the buyer must be residents of the state. Some states, e.g., California, are even more restrictive.
Giving a handgun as a gift is a different matter, yet both the giver and receiver must still be residents of the same state.
They would have to make the transfer through an FFL. Whatever the FFL charges is what it will cost, shouldn't be any different from any other handgun transfer, whether shipped or in person.
Giving a handgun as a gift is a different matter, yet both the giver and receiver must still be residents of the same state.
They would have to make the transfer through an FFL. Whatever the FFL charges is what it will cost, shouldn't be any different from any other handgun transfer, whether shipped or in person.
Just tried to read the federal code on this issue...
... and it's confusingly and badly written.
Looks like you can inherit a gun across state lines without a problem, but buying it may very well require an FFL transfer.
No FFL transfer is required between private individuals within a state.
Beyond that, my brain started to hurt, and that doesn't happen so easily. I'm not sure how lawyers are able to understand what they've written.
Reminds me of Harrison Ford's comment to George Lucas, about the dialogue in Star Wars: "You can write this s***, George, but you sure can't speak it!"
... and it's confusingly and badly written.
Looks like you can inherit a gun across state lines without a problem, but buying it may very well require an FFL transfer.
No FFL transfer is required between private individuals within a state.
Beyond that, my brain started to hurt, and that doesn't happen so easily. I'm not sure how lawyers are able to understand what they've written.
Reminds me of Harrison Ford's comment to George Lucas, about the dialogue in Star Wars: "You can write this s***, George, but you sure can't speak it!"
NavyLT should (I hope!) arrive in this thread at some point. His advice is, IMO, the advice to heed. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to the letter and nuance of the law on these matter.
In the mean time, I understand it as there is NO DIFFERENCE legally whether he drives that firearm from Maine to PA or ships it, it still needs to arrive at a PA-based FFL for you to become it's rightful, legal owner.
The bonus for him driving it to you is that you don't have to pay a carrier to ship it which can get VERY expensive. USPS won't let private non-FFL's ship handguns. UPS & FedEx will, but they require top-level ($$$) shipping.
Driving it from Maine to PA won't save money unless he's coming anyway.
You'll still pay some local PA FFL to receive the handgun from your Maine relative and transfer it to you. Shouldn't be any outrageous fee unless you are at one of the many gun shops who feel that internet buyers undermine their business and like to puni$h folks for asking/paying for their FFL service.
The fact that he's family and that he's driving it to PA don't matter one bit as far as Federal law. No matter who he is or how it arrives there, it's still an interstate firearm sale so it requires an FFL.
In the mean time, I understand it as there is NO DIFFERENCE legally whether he drives that firearm from Maine to PA or ships it, it still needs to arrive at a PA-based FFL for you to become it's rightful, legal owner.
The bonus for him driving it to you is that you don't have to pay a carrier to ship it which can get VERY expensive. USPS won't let private non-FFL's ship handguns. UPS & FedEx will, but they require top-level ($$$) shipping.
Driving it from Maine to PA won't save money unless he's coming anyway.
You'll still pay some local PA FFL to receive the handgun from your Maine relative and transfer it to you. Shouldn't be any outrageous fee unless you are at one of the many gun shops who feel that internet buyers undermine their business and like to puni$h folks for asking/paying for their FFL service.
The fact that he's family and that he's driving it to PA don't matter one bit as far as Federal law. No matter who he is or how it arrives there, it's still an interstate firearm sale so it requires an FFL.
carguychris
New member
Here's the laws in question, directly from the Chapter 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations. I've underlined the pertinent sentences.
To back up what the other posters have said, your relative should accompany you to a friendly PA FFL, who can then do the paperwork for a nominal fee. Some FFLs refuse to accept firearms shipped from out-of-state nonlicensees so they won't get stuck with a stolen or illegally modified gun; however, since your relative will be delivering it in person, the FFL can inspect it before they have to log it into their record book.
The Feds sayeth "no person" and "any other person". The only exception for family members is that you don't need a transfer to receive the firearm by bequest, i.e. to inherit it when the rightful owner dies. I assume that your relative does not plan on expiring anytime soon, so that option is probably off the table.
To back up what the other posters have said, your relative should accompany you to a friendly PA FFL, who can then do the paperwork for a nominal fee. Some FFLs refuse to accept firearms shipped from out-of-state nonlicensees so they won't get stuck with a stolen or illegally modified gun; however, since your relative will be delivering it in person, the FFL can inspect it before they have to log it into their record book.
Thanks for the advice. Like I said I've never done any interstate transactions so I just wanted to know what I was going to be getting into beforehand. We haven't talked about logistics yet, but he will be coming down at least once in the next month so my plan was to have him bring it down and then go to my LGS where I've done all my previous transfers and get it all done legally there. I just didn't know if I would have to pay anymore than before because of it being an out of state gun. The owners real nice and usually only charges $18 for the transfer, plus I'll always by some accessories for the handgun there to make it worth his while.
Well, the gun may not be "registered", but when it's purchased new the first time, someone had to fill out a 4473 on it. That puts the gun in to the hands of it's first actual non-FFL owner in some particular state.
When it shows up in another, different state without showing up in any FFL's records, someone has obviously broken the law.
Who finds out, and how do they find out, and what do they do about it? I have no idea. But it's pretty clear what the law is, and I would think anyone who considers themselves a law-abiding citizen would recognize that.
We've already seen from another thread that regular Joe Lunchbox can see a visit from the BATFE on a handgun when they've done nothing wrong.
When it shows up in another, different state without showing up in any FFL's records, someone has obviously broken the law.
Who finds out, and how do they find out, and what do they do about it? I have no idea. But it's pretty clear what the law is, and I would think anyone who considers themselves a law-abiding citizen would recognize that.
We've already seen from another thread that regular Joe Lunchbox can see a visit from the BATFE on a handgun when they've done nothing wrong.
Yes, Sevens, I agree with you about the first time purchaser of a new firearm, but 4473s are keep on premises, and are (generally) used only to trace a firearm when it turns up somewhere it shouldn't be, i.e. at a crime scene. Also, unless things have changed recently (which they may very well have), 4473s can be destroyed/disposed of after 20 years.
I also said that if 'it's not "registered," who's to know,' meaning a gun that has never been "papered" in any way.
But, I agree with you that we should all follow the examples of our leaders and be law-abiding citizens.
I also said that if 'it's not "registered," who's to know,' meaning a gun that has never been "papered" in any way.
But, I agree with you that we should all follow the examples of our leaders and be law-abiding citizens.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
ChiefMuzz, if your relative is driving from ME to PA, he's going to have to go through New York State, which is famously nasty about the transportation of handguns...
From the NRA's website:
Others here are more knowledgeable that I am about this stuff, but compared to fighting a New York State weapons charge, it would end up being WAY cheaper to pay UPS or Fedex to ship the thing to your dealer...
I'd look into this very carefully, if I were you.
From the NRA's website:
NON-RESIDENTS
It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or
transport a handgun in or through the state unless he
has a valid New York license. (A provision of federal law
provides a defense to state or local laws which would
prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate
travel if the person is traveling from any place where he
may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other
place where he may lawfully possess and transport such
firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In
vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in
a locked container other than the glove compartment or
console).
..............It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or
transport a handgun in or through the state unless he
has a valid New York license. (A provision of federal law
provides a defense to state or local laws which would
prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate
travel if the person is traveling from any place where he
may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other
place where he may lawfully possess and transport such
firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In
vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in
a locked container other than the glove compartment or
console).
Others here are more knowledgeable that I am about this stuff, but compared to fighting a New York State weapons charge, it would end up being WAY cheaper to pay UPS or Fedex to ship the thing to your dealer...
I'd look into this very carefully, if I were you.
It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or
transport a handgun in or through the state unless he
has a valid New York license.
I also am not very knowledgeable about laws and such but......... If I am on a federal interstate this to me is a direct violation(or a nose thumbing) of 2A.
transport a handgun in or through the state unless he
has a valid New York license.
I also am not very knowledgeable about laws and such but......... If I am on a federal interstate this to me is a direct violation(or a nose thumbing) of 2A.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
Perhaps so... but the New York state police, who enforce traffic (and other) laws on Interstates in NYS, will be underwhelmed by this argument, I'm afraid.
dogtown tom
New member
Not entirely true.
There are several ways for a firearm to legally "show up" in another state without going through an FFL:
-Inheritance.
-Owner moved to a different state.
-If a long gun, it may be purchased from an FFL in State A by a resident of State B. No FFL in State B is required.
In the three instances above, Federal law does not prohibit the owner from selling to a non licensee in the new state.