Trailboss replacement as I learn and progress

B

BondoBob

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As I progress beyond my light cowboy loads, I'll need a more flexible powder. I noticed Trailboss load data doesn't even list a 38spl +p. But I guess that's the point. It's for mild loads. Soon I'll be loading 357 and 44 spl as well.

What are some other available pistol powders that are still bulky enough to easily spot a double charge, but capable of matching the energy ft lbs of common self defense factory loads? I carry Critical Defense for that.

Another reason I want a fairly bulky powder is that I've heard my Lee Perfect Powder measure is prone to leaking very fine powders. It works great with Trailboss.

So far I suspect Unique, Clays, Bullsey and Blue Dot would be contenders. But they are not readily available near me. Any others come to mind? I'm also not clear on which would have the best burn rate for 38+p, 357 and 44 Spl. Or maybe there's not one that does all 3 well.

Lastly, I understand the danger of too much powder creating a high pressure situation. How is it that going below the recommended start load would also create a high pressure situation. I have no intention of testing this. I'm just asking in case of a scale calibration error. I may opt to start my loads slightly above the starting load to avoid this. My Lee Safety Scale shows 3.2 grains while my digital shows 3.4 grains for the same through, hence my concern.

Thanks,
 
I would add Herco and Green Dot to your list, and drop Blue Dot. Maybe add AA#7 for your .357 Magnum, but it might be too fine for you powder measure.

What powders are readily available near you?
 
Trail boss is a very good powder. I used it a lot. Other than being bulky, it has relatively low energy content. All good for light loads.

There is rule of thumb of 70% to 100% for this powder. For loads of no listing, one can start from 70% load ratio and not to exceed 100%. Following that rule, I have worked up loads for several calibers.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Availability is a moving target (pun intended). One day I see H110, another day universal. You never know. That's why I'm trying to compile a list of acceptable powders to bring with me. I may be over analyzing this, but I'm new to this and don't want to mess it up.
 
Bullseye will take you up to 38+P. Something slower for 357.
44 Special will work with any fast powder.

Unique is great for all 3 except the big booming 357.

Instead of buying bulky powder, make your reloading practices fail safe. Use what you want that way.

You will need 2 powders if you want true 357 loads. 38 and 44 special will work with any fast powder up to Unique or about there. Get a powder chart and see what is in the area of Bullseye for your light loads and see what is available like 2400, or AA7, or WW296, H110...

David

There is no powder that does everything.
 
There are a lot, Power Pistol being one. Bullseye is a great powder for low to mid-range loads, but it only takes a little bit.
 
Ok it looks like the bulkiest ones are Unique (which I guess can do it all), Clays, 700X, Green Dot and Herco. I should be able to find at least one of those around here. I'll look up load data against these first.

David R: I get what your saying about fails safes for my process. I have given that a lot of thought. It's one of the reasons I started with a single stage press, so I can eyeball each drop, easily weigh every few drops and double/triple check while I'm starting out.

Just doesn't hurt to make it that much easier to spot a double charge, which is the main reason I went with Trailboss to start. You can't even place a bullet in the case with a double shot of Trailboss. But I realize that is a temporary crutch as I gain competency.

I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
 
Trail boss sucks. 231, Unique and several others are far more useful.
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I'm starting to realize that. Not a lot of load data or uses for it. I always intended it to be a "training" powder for me. I think it's serving it's purpose in that regard.
 
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Trail Boss does not "suck." Trail Boss is a powder that was developed for a specific purpose and market. Used for the intended purpose, it's a good powder. It was never intended to be a universal powder.
 
I agree. Trail Boss is a good power for what it was/is intended for. Fills the case nicely and works well in large cases like .45 Colt or the .44s. I still have almost 10# of it on the shelf. I didn't care for it small cases like the .357.

There are lots of powders that work well for .357 and .44 Special. I use Unique in my .44 Special and Green Dot in my .357 loads. Moving to True Blue in .357 ... Just because I want to. Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Universal, 20/28, BE-86, True Blue, Power Pistol, AA#5, CFE Pistol are just a few powders that I have tested and used. I have found good loads with all of these Powders. For the heavier loads I like Longshot and 2400. Past the noise/blast/heavy recoil phase of my life so don't load heavy hardly at all anymore.
 
I'll add another powder to the list; Promo. It's just like Red Dot without the red dots. Only sold in 8 lb jugs. (the density is a little different too, so you'll need to adjust your powder measure when switching from RD to Promo) It's a fast burning bulky powder that works well in all pistol cartridges and even some bottleneck rifle cartridges, although the muzzle velocity will be modest in magnum and rifle cartridges.

I have used it before in .357 Magnum target loads that a lot milder than normal .357's but more than .38 Special +Ps.
 
Background: I have loaded more 38 Special than any other cartridge. If the accounting gods came down from above and told me that I have loaded/shot more than 100K rounds of 38 Special, I would not be surprised. By coincidence, I loaded my first round of ammunition 36 years ago today (6/4/84) - it was a 38 Special. Speer 158gn lead round nose; 4.0 grains of Bullseye.

You are about to read a minority opinion:

Yes, you can wind up 38 Special to typical factory "+P velocities" ("+P" is actually a pressure designation, not a velocity designation) easily with many intermediate burn rate propellants. I've done lots with HS-6, AA#5, Power Pistol, Green Dot, and probably a few others I can't remember. But I will tell you, the most consistent performance comes from the fast powders - and they do so without giving up much velocity.

Example - Using 125gn JHP's, through a 4" revolver:

5.2gn AA#2 (fast burner) yields 934 f/s. KE=328 ft/lbs
7.4gn AA#5 (intermediate) yields 967 f/s. KE=352 ft/lbs

I have no way to measure, but I suspect the peak pressure between the two are close. I would consider both of these to be "P+."

That's only 33 f/s difference; and 24 ft/lbs of kinetic energy. But you pay for that extra energy with a lot more flash and thrust recoil (not that there's a bunch with 38 Special). The faster propellant delivers a nice controllable snap that handles a lot better. Not to mention that moving to an intermediate burner also means using quite a bit more per round. All in all, it doesn't seem to be a good way to go. 38 Special is just made for fast propellants IMO. I really like AA#2, W231 (or HP-38 - same stuff, different label), or Bullseye.

All of these fast burners will do very well in 44 Special too. You'll need another powder (or two) for 357 Magnum.

What are some other available pistol powders that are still bulky enough to easily spot a double charge . . . ?
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I would suggest moving away from this mindset. 38 Special has a low case fill in all but a few circumstances (TrailBoss). You need to check your charge fill before seating the bullet - period. All cases must be checked for fill - somehow, some way - religiously. Choosing a propellant based on its fill rate is not the correct criteria. Propellants must be chosen based on their intended purpose and performance characteristics.

How is it that going below the recommended start load would also create a high pressure situation?
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What can happen is if the fill level is really low and the powder is lying on the bottom along the length of the case (case is sitting horizontal, ready to shoot), the primer can shoot across the top of the powder igniting it nearly all at once. This would result in pressure building very quickly and spiking beyond safe limits. To my knowledge, it's a rare event. But obviously best avoided none the less.
 
Several of the medium speed powders like Unique and Power Pistol will give good case fill in the 357. Case fill with those won't be as good in the 44 Special. Slower powders will give a bit better case fill, but will be fairly dirty at the low 44 Special pressures. Same for 38 Special.

I've always found medium and slower powders rather dirty in lower pressure/large case cartridges like 38 Special, 44 Special, and 45 Colt. For those I usually use a fast powder and watch carefully for multiple charges.
 
Just doesn't hurt to make it that much easier to spot a double charge, which is the main reason I went with Trailboss to start. You can't even place a bullet in the case with a double shot of Trailboss. But I realize that is a temporary crutch as I gain competency.
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Get a small flashlight and look in the casings empty and then full of powder. Works for me.
 
Trailboss a one trick pony? I’ve used in everything from .357mag, .44mag, 30-30, .300blk to .300win. It’s a great powder to use to just introduce people to a new cartridge that doesn’t rely on gas pressure to cycle.
 
Maybe because it's a one trick pony?
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I use Trail boss in at least a dozen cartridges- from super mild 38 specials to plinking ammo and lead bullets in many rifle cartridges. Its very versatile for low powered/ high fill applications.
 
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