TOW Bucks County Rifle Kit Update #18

duelist1954

New member
In this update #18 on my Track of the Wolf Bucks County rifle kit.

In this update I installed the Toe Plate.

Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xXp5RFWlM

During the inletting I chipped out a piece of the stock. I'd like recommendations on how to fix this. It is unsupported, so I'm not sure what will work.

I'll post pictures in a few minutes.
 
Here is the area that I chipped out...not sure how to fix it, so all ideas are welcome.

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From a newbie who has already made that mistake

You are probably going to have to remove the toe plate and inlet and glue in a larger piece ( deeper / wider )that goes under the toe plate and then re- inlet it the patch. I am a novice and building my first rifle, and have done this several times and it works pretty well its almost invisible if you take your time. I really enjoy your series and anxiously await each update. Hurry and get to the application of finish please. I have attached 2 photos where I inlaid a piece and they are very hard to see.

Have a Happy, Prosperous, Healthy and Safe New Year
jspappap

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If I may comment here Duelist .
you inlet the toe plate before you brought the stock down towards finish dimensions fare enough . I say this because in your 2nd photo I can see that there are still chisel marks that are under the cheek piece , that appear to be deeper then the sanded area along the toe. By the time you take those down so you have a slow taper to the toe of the butt plate , there doesn’t look “at least from my end , “ to be any wood left to surround the nose of your toe plate . IE that chip is going to be gone by the time you feather all that out so you have a smooth transition back from the triggers to the butt ..

I watched your video on inletting the TG . I do all my inletting much the same way .
This includes items like the toe plate and side plate as well as items like a comb inlay or belly plate .
The difference is that I do not use an exsacto knife to scribe around the part .

What I do is take the part and trace it with a very sharp pencil. Then I use a small chisel to plunge strait down on the inside of the line .
When you plunge your not removing wood , your spredding it . Thus when you come back and remove the wood from the inside of the completed outline , the outer edge of the wood is still compressed out ward . Keep plunging and removing wood from the inside tell the part sets level . You will have a small gap around the part . that’s ok as long as you stayed inside of the original plunge cut when you removed wood . As soon as you add alittle water to the stock with a damp cloth , the wood will swell right back to its original shape and be tight with the inlay . Thus making a very tight and clean fit.

The other way to do it is to bevel the underside of the part your inletting . IE in the case of your toe plate , the nose would have had its sides under cut / beveled . The part is then inlet slowly so the bevel stays tight . The reason it does that is that when you scribe you line , its actually under the part . Each time you remove wood from inside the line , you then have to re scribe the line for the part to drop down .
It takes time but the part then slowly drops down into place ..
For years I had done it that way tell a friend of mine , Jerry Huddleston showed me how to Plunge inlet parts by not only using my carving chisels but also by using home made inletting chisels from those small cheep micro screwdrivers .
here is a photo of a toe plate as well as some inlay work and begining wire work that i have plunge inlet on a rifle im working on. I have as of yet not done any finish sanding of the carving or brough the wire work down to level. when i whisker the stock , the wood will form even tighter to the inlays

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in this photo you can see the small screwdriver chisels that i was speaking of
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Now as to fixing your chip out .
What I would do is take the toe plate off use a small piece of scrap or a thicker chiseled waste piece . Carefully match the grain as close as you can and fit it into the edge of your inlet . Use white glue clamp it tell dry . dont wipe any excess glue off . let it stay high . that way you can simply sand it away . if you wipe it you will seal the wood and cause an issue with the stain . Then re inlet the toe plate being careful not to let it chip out.
But again , it really looks like from my end that by the time you bring down all that chisel work under the cheek piece , your probably not going to have any wood left along the nose of the toe plate
 
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Most of those plates are only .040" thick.
It would be easy to take it out and plane or file the bottom line of the stock down .040" and just start over.
Going down a bit will also have the advantage of making the wood a bit wider so it would be easier the next time.
 
maybe steve , but again it might be the whay the photos show on my screen but it looks like the toe plate is already lower then the avrage plain so he would have to take it down much more then ..040 then re shape everything back in so that the toe of the buttplate would match the toe plate .
its real hard to tell just from the area of the photos provided .
the plus though would that he would also get a 2nd chance at inletting the toe plate tighter and he could simply cut out a new toe plate , which as you said would give more room by having a thicker area to work with
 
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Captchee, another example of your beautiful work. The small screwdriver chisels did you harden them ? Also how do you get the inlays to stay in place without any screws or pins ? I'm savoring your every word and saving your every picture for future reference. Thank you much
 
If you still have the chip, superglue it back into place.

If not, then find a chip from the same wood and carve it to fit. Then glue it into place.
 
Captchee,
The small screwdriver chisels did you harden them ? Also how do you get the inlays to stay in place without any screws or pins ? I'm savoring your every word and saving your every picture for future reference. Thank you much

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I have never hardened them . I guess one could but I don’t think the steel is good enough to hold a temper . The set I have in the photos , I have had for probably 10 years . I just touch them up every now and then with a diamond stone

The nice thing about them is that the sets come with flat drivers ranging from 1/32 all the way to ¼ .
The 1/32 are great for going around curves , while the 1/4s work real well for small chisels .
Again they are not tempered. But they still work well when driven by a small brass hammer and will with a diamond stone produce a very sharp edge
You also get Phillips head drivers in the same sizes . Those I cut the ends off of and make small gouges

As to how to get inlays to stay in whiteout screws or pins . Most times I use pins . If you look at the photo of the silver work around the patch box , look at the upper work . You can see the silver pins as I have not brought the silver down flush yet . While on the bottom you don’t see the pins because I have started cleaning those up .
When you use pins what I do is drill the hole , then counter sink the hole , just a little . The pins then need to have a head on them . Once they are driven in I use a small round bunch to slowly flatten the head out . In doing so it fills the counter sink . Then once sanded flush , you don’t see it . In some cases you might see a small ring . But even then , like in the photos where you see those rings , you wont see them once the engraving is done

Now on the toe plate , that’s all one piece . The flower is brass . The front leaves are pinned with silver pins
Now lets say I m using a inlay where I cant for some reason use pins . Then what I do is bed the inlay .
First I raise small burrs in the form of teeth on the back of the piece . Those teeth grab the bedding so that it wont pop out .
but for the most part i like to use pins or screws when ever i can .
 
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That chip of wood missing can be filled in with some wood inlet and have the inlet blend into the grain of the wood as much as is possible. Ink from a permenent marker may be used to make some darker "grain" in the wood there to hide anything that looks funky.
Even a metal inlay put there making it look like you planned it that way can hide the chip. Get imaginative and get artistic bout it.
Maybe make a matching inlay fer the other side to match.
Maybe fill the area in with a dark epoxy and ink by it to make a mineral stain to the wood there.
Maybe drill for a knot found from some other wood and inlet a knot hole there.:eek: ;) Knots are loose in wood sometimes and can be removed and placed in other wood.
Wood has stains and knots and mineral marks in it.
Glue or better yet epoxy(with an epoxy that's a dull dark grey/black) to fill the space and ink some natural lookin stain or mineral streak to the area to blend in or naturalize the flub up. Just use yer imagination and yer artistics and yer sneekiness and yer innovation to hide the flub up.
I've seen plain wood stocks with added ink marker maple dark grain put in here and there and it looked natural if done right.
Don't worry it'll be alright since it's a small mistake to cover/hide ect.ect. The rifle can still come out like a real nice rifle even with some small imperfections.

I knew a rifle maker that did all his rifles by Accra Glassing(epoxy) under and around all his inlet parts and then blended the wood stain to match. He said it was quicker to get the rifles done for he had a long list of rifles to make fer people.
He did the barrel channels with bedded barrels(Accra Glass Jell)and did under the breech end of the barrel channels and everywhere. I saw his finished rifles and he was really good at staining the wood to match the brown/black colored epoxy.
His blanks of wood with all the parts epoxied in looked horrible until he filed and rasped and shaped the rifle and all the epoxy around all the parts was not visible once the wood was stained. All his rifles were a dark color. ha ha ha .

He used release agent on the parts. He made nice rifles and got top dollar for them. He never let the customers see the wood blanks with all the parts epoxied in. ha ha ha ha No one ever complained either. He won all kinds of rifle building competitions and all that . Blue Ribbon rifles. ha ha ha ha

Examples of old antiques show me that pins can be soldered under the inlays and then tapped in the wood. The inlay stays in place while the cuts made around the part or a fine pencil outlines the the part and then the part removed to plung cut or knife the line and the inner wood removed.
I have the junk parts of what was once a masterpiece of craftmanship double shotgun before it was broken up by some monkey. It has the ecshusions(inlays for the two barrel keys) (silver inlays) with the pins soldered to the back pf the inlays and driven in thru the forearm and bent over inside the barrel channel. They ain't comin loose. I want to use them fer a project and I'll have to unbend the pins bent over in the barrel channel.

I like to bevel the edge of my inlays(lock plate,side plate or any inlay) carefully and then hold it in place with the pins/screws partially set in to hold the part.
Then scribe around the part with an exacto knife using the thickness of the blade to cut the wood outside the actual part leaving a small space outside the part. Cutting with the knife edge at the angle of the bevel around the inlay part. Judge the small space so when the beveled part is set in after the wood inside the line is removed the part when set in gets tight around the edge as it settles in the undercut that's just deep as the thickness of the part to settle flush with the surrounding wood.
I like to use inlet black to the bottom of the part to have all the under surface flush contact with the wood so....the part stays stable for a long time even if hit or bumped or whatever.
The heads of pins to hold inlays put in drilled holes in the wood or simply driven in the wood can be shaped to the bevel/countersink to the top of the inlays hole by making a simple tool.
The tool is a hunk of rectangle metal with a small hole (the pins can fit into) drilled into it with a bigger drill making the countersink top of the hole.
The pin is set in the hole where it bottoms out in the metalblock and the top is beat out to obsturate into the shape of the countersink at the top of the hole. The same drill used to make the counter sink in the block metal tool is used to counter sink the metal inlay holes. That way the hammer forged head of the pin fits the countersink of the hole in the metal part/inlay perfectly for a good stable fit.
Anywhooo....I like to bevel my parts around the edge with a file before the inletting.
I like the carving in the pics above. That's good work. Nice carving. That Captchee is a real craftsman.
Captchee, I see some artwork on paper in you picture. I wonder where you got it? I like to collect artwork like that. Is that a rendition of Beck or Byers?
How can I get some copies of the artwork on the paper in your picture?
 
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Captchee, I see some artwork on paper in you picture. I wonder where you got it? I like to collect artwork like that. Is that a rendition of Beck or Byers?
How can I get some copies of the artwork on the paper in your picture?
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Thank you for the kind words .
I to collect a lot of scroll designs not only for carving but also for engravings
As such I often get them from furniture , rugs , tapestries, building architecture ….. Anywhere I can find designs I might like I save them .
a lot of times ill even cut them apart and change them in paint shop to get what im after . IE ill take parts from different scrolls and add them to each other to create a design
I then print out 2 patterns. One actual size of the carving so I can transfer it and the 2nd which you see in my photo, which I use as a shading reference

The one you see in the photo is a Victorian single scroll as is the front carvings just ahead of the cheek piece which is mirrored on the patch box side . The tang and entry carvings are Acanthus patterns .

If you would copies of those patterns , send me a Pm with your e-mail and ill send them to you .
Or I believe you can now find them on Istock .
As to the rifle .
It’s a loss rendition of an Isaac Haines.
The stock is flame/fiddle back walnut .
The barrel is an early Don Getz C swamp in 54 cal .
Triggers are double set Davis .
Lock is a Siler
Its mounted in German silver, Silver , brass and gold .
The barrel will be relief engraved with gold leaf work and gold breech bands .
Sights are custom
I still have A LOT of work left on that rifle . all the engraving is yet to be done . i need to finish the silver wire work and add a couple more leaves to the patch box seround not to mention final clean up of the carving
 
Captchee,
That rifle yer makin is gonna be worth a "mint".
Very nice and with that extra premium presentation grade wood......makes me cry....."I want it...I want it Mommy". ha ha ha ha ha ha
You seem to do everything you do very well. Drive you crazy yet? Most of the great masters were a lil off from the strain. :eek: :D
You'd do well on one of those German carved Jaeger rifles.
Yer carving looks better than the old masters like Beck and Beyers.
I don't want tobother you e-mailing art my way. I don't have a printer hooked up to this little lap topanywhoooo.
I have some stuff pretty close anyway. Thanks fer the offer, Yer alright Hombre.
 
Duelist:

If that was my project rather than try to patch that darn thing I'd just cut another toe plate just long enough to cover the chipped area. I have made the same mistake as you and simply reformed a piece.

Thing about it is that a patch will always be just that........a slightly longer plate that fits precisely would, to me, be a great deal more satisfying.
 
dogrunner + 1

If that was my project rather than try to patch that darn thing I'd just cut another toe plate just long enough to cover the chipped area.
As I follow this thread, those have been my thoughts. It's like a wart on a beautiful woman's face .... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
dogrunner, yer a dang genius. ;)
I'd hope I'd have thunked that up instead of being stuck on fixin the blooper of wood.
That area that chipped out....that would be a good example of a place to use a knife instead of plunging with a chisel. Good place to keep that part of the brass further from the edge too.
Doesn't hurt to learn to give patchin some wood a try since that can be handy experience somewhere down the road. Maybe like when refurbishing an old huntin gun picked up at a gunshow or whatever.
I've always enjoyed seeing articles where a restoration was being done on an old rifle that had a big hunk of wood missing(usually forearm wood on a full stock). When it's done right the patch can be invisible....when a real craftsman/artist does the patch well. (Hides the patch lines well and blends it in).
Of course those cases are working with an old gun where the idea is to make it seem original.
 
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Great Stuff

Great advice dogrunner. I read every post on this forum every day and hope to remember 10% of what I learn. 100 heads are always better than 1.
 
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