Took my 19-4 for a test drive. Big Surprise!

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PigPen

New member
Took the M19-4 out for a test drive today. Stopped by Wally World and bought the ammunition available in .357. It was Reminbton UMC 125 Gr. JSP.

Loaded her up....Fired one shot......cylinder is locked. Can't release it and open it. Can't rotate it by hand or with DA pulls or Hammer pulls.........Locked tight! Of course the other 5 rounds are still in the cylinder.

Who was it told me that a revolver was more reliable than an automatic because they don't jam :)?

Ideas anyone?

PigPen
 
PigPen...

"Ideas anyone?"

DARN! And i was one of the guys who encouraged you to get this puppy!

Did the bullet exit the barrel? Can you see through the cylinder/barrel gap? That would be my first suggestion to check, possible squib load that did not clear the cylinder charge hole.

If not, then it sounds like the action has frozen somehow, broken part maybe or something wedged in there. Your post is not clear on one point, can you pull the hammer back or pull the trigger or is everything frozen?

In any case it suonds like a trip to the gunsmith. Sorry to hear it.
 
There is no bullet in the barrel (No squib). It hit the target. I can pass an ice pick down the barrel and into the cylinder. Yes, I can see a gap between the cylinder and the barrel.

I can pull the hammer back either with my thumb or by pulling the trigger. When I do, the cylinder moves slightly and then stops. At this point, I can not withdraw the hammer more either with my thumb or the trigger. When I release pressure, the hammer returns back down.

I cannot rotate the cylinder out of the pistol with my hand. The ejector rod wnet into the barrel lug and only one shot was fired. While I cannot move it, it does not appear to have moved.

Guess I need a smith. I hate to force the cylinder since I do not know what the H*** I am doing. To be sure it is something I minor.

What pisses me is that the former owner KNEW this problem existed. I don't think that the shop owner who consigned it knew but the owner knew. What did he think??? That I wouldn't fnd out? I think I will call the shop owner and tell him about this when it is straightened out.

Thanks for your help.

PigPen
 
Try this: Take a business card and slip it under the cylinder and then pull it back toward the recoil shield. That may depress the cylinder stop and allow you to open the cylinder. When you get the cylinder open, unload the gun, insert a couple of empty cartridges into the cylinder to support the star, and turn the ejection rod counter clockwise to tighten the left-hand threads.
 
Pigpen,

Try this...

Take a business card, and slip it underneath the cylinder. Pull the trigger slightly to release the cylinder bolt, and then slip the business card in so that it pushes the cylinder bolt completely out of engagement with the cylinder.

Now try rotating the cylinder. Will it rotate? You should be able to rotate it both clockwise and counter clockwise.

When you attempt to rotate it, does the ejector rod turn? If it doesn't, it's come loose.

If the ejector rod does turn, but you still can't turn the cylinder, I'm going to guess the primer flowed and locked the action up.

If it turns out to be the ejector rod coming loose, get yourself a sharpened flat stick, and wedge it between the barrel and the knurled end of the ejector rod. The idea is to keep the rod steady while you retighten the cylinder on to it.

Then, with the card in place and the rod locked down, rotate the cylinder counter clockwise.

This will retighten the cylinder and should allow you to open the gun.

The old owner MAY have known that the problem existed. He may not have, ESPECIALLY if it turns out to be an ammo problem.
 
Before reading Clemson's post, I held the cylinder release down and hit the cylinder hard with the heel of my hand a couple of times.......It came open! I inspected the star and it looks OK. The cylinder spins freely, it closes and reopens as expected, it dry fires single or double action. I can't see anything wrong..............................Maybe I should go back to my 1911@#$%^$#!

I turned the barrel upwards and all unfired cartridges fell out of the cylinder easily. I pressed the ejector rod and the empty cartridge case lifted easily out of the cilinder. The case shows no signs of high pressure, chaffing, swelling or really anthing abnormal. The cylinder stop depresses without resistance.

I think I am goind to reload and try firing it again then again, I might not be able to beat it loose next time. Sure would hate for a local smith to get hold of it and i can't ship it off loaded.

Might have to rethink this. Advice sought.

PigPen
 
Did you try retightening the ejector rod?

Hold the cylinder with one hand and twist the rod with the other. If you can unscrew it, you know what the problem is.
 
Mike, I can not budge the ejector rod with my hand. Plus, when it was locked up, I could see the cylinder release pushing the pin in the end of the barrel lug clear of the ejector rod.

PigPen
 
Pigpen... is this revolver ....

one of the new ones with the frame mounted firing pin? I'm wondering if the firing pin hung up in the primer?

The other "stand by" problem is the primer backing into the firing pin hole.

Try the revolver with wadcutters.
 
Sounds like what happened to my Model 19-3. It turned out to be a loose trigger stop. 5 to 10 min fix, but it means taking the side plate off to get at it. If you're not comfortable doing that, maybe the shop owner could do it for ya.
 
Firing pin is on the hammer.

Rae, I have never minded taking things apart................it's putting them back together that's always bothered me :). Thanks for the suggestion. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a look inside but the hammer and trigger both seems willing and then returned to their original positions.

Maybe this is why the guy sold it to me.

Would *&* work on this pistol?

PigPen
 
Would *&* work on this pistol?
Click to expand...

Being from an area somewhat short on gunsmiths thats one of the things I really like about S/W. Every time I've had a problem they have sent a shipping label and repaired at no cost. Give them a call.

PS, Don't call them Asterick&Asterick on the phone, they don't like that ;)
 
SLIM possibility

but one no one has mentioned. How is the condition of the hole where the cylinder release PUSHES from the back on the ejector?

Is the male part nicely and smoothly rounded so it will pop out of that hole? Is the hole itself free of boogers?

My M17 got a bit stiffy (?) and a TINY couple swipes with emery polishing the extension of the ejector freed it up.

This is a tricky one.

AND....I guess if it's a used gun, there may be some way to get that pusher part of the cylinder release to go too far into the cyl.

????????

Hey, how about moving to the SMITHY thread? I have had REALLY good luck there.
 
Lavan,

I considered that, and discarded it, because the cylinder bolt hole wouldn't prevent the cylinder from turning, only swinging out.

I think you need to get it back to the range, PigPen, and see if you can replicate it.

If it happens again, mark the chamber on which the gun hung up, get it open, recharge, and try firing again. If it happens with the same chamber, it may be related to that specific chamber.

If it happens randomly, you'll need to talk to S&W.

As for the possibility of the trigger stop doing this, I'm not 100% certain, but I think that the movable trigger stop was a thing of the past on the Model 19 by the time the 19-4 came out.
 
but I think that the movable trigger stop was a thing of the past on the Model 19 by the time the 19-4 came out.
Click to expand...
Mike,
I believe that's correct since neither of my 19-4's have one. I think the holes (pins?)are all there in the 19-4 for them though.,,,,it's been a while since I had the sideplate off of my 19-4's.. Someone may have installed, or tried to install one.
 
Once the gun is clear, make sure the ejector rod is tight. It's left hand threaded. Then, with no ammo in the gun, close and open the cylinder a few times. Does it hitch at all? With the cylinder closed push the cylinder release forward, and look to see that the center pin clears the frame at the rear, and pushes the locking pin (at the end of the ejector) all the way clear. If it doesn't fully clear, then either the center pin, or the latch are too short, of there is a lot of gunk between the latch and the frame. However, that won't affect the cylinder rotation

Are you sure a bullet didn't pull out of a case? If it does pull out, it is usually easiest to rotate the problem cartidge to the bottom of the window for opening. If all of the bullets are pulled you are in real trouble.

Please, please don't beat the cylinder open

Owen
 
Well, I took the side plate off. All looked OK to me....Never seen inside one before but nothing was obviously broken loose or displaced. In fact, all of the parts looked unworn with sharp edges. The screws didn't show any signs of being loose before. The side plate was very tight and when I finally coaxed it loose, it had a little gunk on the mating edges like it had'nt been off in a long time (if ever since manufacture). I was afraid to fool around with it open by working the hammer and trigger much; You all know the old clock spring phenomena, where all at once springs and parts all fly out so that you do not know where they came from. So I put the side plate back on.

I removed the cylinder retention screw and the cylinder.....all looks good to me.....then put it back.

Then I loaded one cartridge (Don't know why I didn't think of this before-duh!). Fired the pistol......it seized. beat it loose with the heel of my hand..... repeated it in a different cylinder....seized again....and again different cylinder...seized again. This last time it took a rubber mallet (notice I did not use the word hammer - that would have been "beating" it loose) to get it loose.

When it's seized up, I can see light (i.e. space) all the way around the cylinder except at the very back where the extractor contacts the cylinder release. Yes, the release is fully releasing the catch at hte front of the extractor rod. Internals seem caught on something.

If I had to guess, I would say that the extractor is moving backwards (is is a little rough on a couple of the spikes that contact the rim case) and hanging up. There is an area which I am sure is normally abraided that is probably a little worse than it should be...............well who knows.

Guess it needs to go to *&*. Anybody know a good number for them?

Thanks for all the good suggestions guys.

PigPen
 
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