Too much gun the cause of poor accuracy?

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DougB

New member
I went shooting with a friend tonight. He's not a particularly avid shooter, but he enjoys big game hunting and travels to Montana every year to hunt deer and sometimes Elk (always successfully). He has a Weatherby 300 magnum. He had a nice muzzle break installed a year or two ago. It also has a Leopould 3-9 scope.

I'm more into military-style rifles the past few years. Anyway, we set up some paper plates for targets at 100 yards and started shooting. I was pleased when my first 10-shot group with my AR (iron sights) was about 4" (I can barely see the target at 100 yards, and I'm by no means an excellent shot).

I was expecting my friend to get tight groups with his gun (shooting from sandbags at a concrete shooting bench), but he had a tough time keeping his shots on the plates. He tried adjusting his scope several times, but never really got to where he could consistently hit near the center of a plate. He once referred to his group as a "pattern" (he didn't intend it as a joke - and indeed, it was more like a shotgun pattern). He mentioned that he's had accuracy problems before (he said when he had the muzzle break installed they failed to fully tighten some of the screws or something - but he thought he fixed that).

Anyway, my suspicion is that the recoil and muzzle blast of his rifle (which interfered somewhat with MY shooting) are causing him to flinch. I can't help but think that he'd be better off with a 30-06, .308, or .270 that would be much more pleasant to shoot. I know that if I don't concentrate it it is easy for me to flinch even with much milder calibers. Do you think this is likely, and if so, is it a common problem? I'd been thinking of getting a 7mm or 300 mag bolt rifle, but maybe I'll go with the flow and get a .308 instead. I'd hate for the anticipation of recoil to ruin my accuracy. I guess there's more to it than getting the flattest shooting cartridge. Thoughts?

Doug
 
Muzzle brakes make noise and if improperly set, can direct blast back at the shooter (its called reflection) esp. off a hard surface like concrete.

You buddy may need to shoot more. He MAY also want to check the front mount his rings are set into. I had a tack driving rifle turn into a "patterning pig" at 100 yards when the mounting screw on my front base came loose. it was even hard to SEE that something was amiss until I took a good hard look. Thats why you loctite the threads of your base mount and ring screws. Even on a 1 piece base this can be a problem.

Put loctite on the threads and torque it down and let it dry overnight. Re-zero the rifle at 50, then 100.

Then again, maybe your buddy needs a 30-06 or 7mag to cure that flinch.:D
 
It's not at all sure that the equipment is the problem - how does he do with other rifles? Once the hair covered computer is adjusted, then the rifle should be looked into.

If he's OK with another rifle, then the scope is the number one suspect. About 80% of the problems with rifle/scope combos are the scope or scope mounts.

The inability to keep the shots on a plate and fiddling with the scope knobs are real indicators that all is not well here.

Think recoil/muzzle blast are way down on the list in terms of problems.

Giz
 
Typically the loose nut behind the buttstock is at fault...try tightening that up or at least checking it out first...perhaps with a .22 rimfire rifle.
 
IMO, I think it could be the brake. It (its weight) could be screwing up the harmonics of the barrel. Is the brake removable? If it is, why not try an experiment and see if shooting the rifle without it will improve accuracy.
 
Maybe someone was referring to this when they said to tighten the nut behind the buttplate, but it seems that replacing said nut would be the easiest of all tests to run ... of course it would be best to replace it with a known good performer in that class of cartridge!

Saands
 
Is your friend a seasoned shooter? The .300 WM does generate a good amound of recoil. I've got a vintage '50's Weatherby MKV that is a tackdriver, but only when I relax and concentrate. Unfortunately, the 9 lb weight of the gun, the monte carlo stock, and having to mount the rifle on the wrong side (I'm a leftie) all contribute to harsh recoil. Honestly, I need to relax and "center" myself before each shot to put 'em all in the same place. But when I do, the rifle does, too. I don't know, really. It could be that your friend's rifle is not a shooter, but I'd almost bet it's him (especially if it's a Weatherby with a "stock" stock). Maybe a 25 lb bag of lead shot between the shoulder and the rifle butt might illuminate things more clearly. Although I suppose you do run the risk of cracking the stock with this method, though. Even in the 21st century, there's still no free lunch.:)
vanfunk
 
I guess I'll have to disagree a little here:

Seems to me that instead of trying to tell the guy right off the bat that he's not doing it right, check out the rifle, thoroughly. Try it out yourself and see how it works; tighten everything up, and see if there isn't a simple reason for his problem.


THEN tell him about proper shooting form and how to shoot as accurately as possible. Let him practice dry-firing a bit to get the form down. (Use snap caps, if necessary.)

Then, tell him that you're going to load one round at a time in his rifle for him, and give it to him to shoot. Then give him an empty gun.

When he pulls the trigger, you should be able to see him flinch and he'll notice it, too. Do this for about 20 rounds (loaded individually), and randomly load the round or not. Give him an empty gun sometimes and other times give it to him loaded. (Of course, you ALWAYS treat the rifle as if it's loaded!)

If he can predict that the round is loaded and that it will kick him, then he'll flinch. If he doesn't know when it will happen, then he'll be more likely to concentrate on form, rather than on recoil.

If he can't cure the flinch, then he needs less gun and more practice. He probably always comes back from his Montana* hunts with full tag because he has a good guide, rather than because he's a good hunter or shooter.

If that still doesn't solve the problem, then it's likely the rifle, so send it to a gunsmith; or else he needs a new hobby. ;)

BTW: I've learned the above from personal experience and from The Hunter's Shooting Guide by Jack O'Connor, 1978, Outdoor Life Books. (ISBN: 0-94322-00-9)

* Beautiful place, Montana. That will be my retirement home!
 
Loose the muzzle brake. If you need it then the calibres to much for you. I've got one of the first new controlled feed Win M70's in .300 Wby, with handloads and glass bedding it shoots under 1 inch @ 100yds. But, I hate it. The recoil is much worse than my .375 H&H and feels more like my .416 Rem, just sharper. Of course I can't remember the "kick" ever when shooting game. My trick is to pad up my shoulder with a folded soft rifle case when shooting from the bench, use plugs and muffs and shoot no more the 12 rounds. So far my '06 and .375 do everything the .300Wby. does, just with less pain and powder.
 
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