Too Many Secret Police?

Matt VDW

New member
Is there a trend towards having more and more police officers working in plain clothes, rather than in uniform?

Obviously, a police officer doing investigative work under cover has to keep a low profile, but it seems to me that officers working on the enforcement end (making arrests, executing search warrants, etc.) should be in uniform. When they act as the long arm of the law, there should be no question who they are and which agency they represent.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

By the way, I'd like to apologize in advance if this stirs up another round of cop-bashing and counter-bashing. That's not my intent. I'd just like to discuss whether or not this is a trend in the culture of law enforcement and if so, if we should be worried about it.
 
I would worry a lot more about the paid-informant systems that's getting people killed all over this country.

If you pay a dope dealer enough money, he's bound to implicate just about anyone.
 
Jack 99,
What paid informant system are you referring to? I have worked in LE in a large metro area and a smaller rural are and I have never seen informants paid. I have seen it on TV shows such as NYPD Blue. Who is paying these informants? LEOs do not make enough to be spreading money around to solve cases. And with the budget system LE agencies have I can't imagine there being an informant budget.
 
I'll be sure to post the next article I come across on the subject. Yes, paid informants do exist and usually they are criminals themselves. Sometimes, they give bogus info and sometimes people die becuase of that info.
 
You might want to chew on these in the meantime:

http://www.oblivion.net/news/990401or.html

http://www.november.org/wall-WillF.html


School Informant Project Runs Into Objections
by Michael A.W. Ottey

April 1, 1999 - The Oregonian


Members of a Portland neighborhood group are objecting to a citywide program in the schools that encourages students to turn in their peers in exchange for money.

The Brooklyn Action Corps, a neighborhood association in Southeast Portland, is checking into Campus Crime Stoppers, recently introduced to Portland schools, to determine whether to ask the school board to keep the program out of schools.

"It scares a lot of people," said John Mathiesen, a member of the association. At a recent meeting attended by parents, teachers and others in the neighborhood, nobody was in favor of the program, Mathiesen said.

The program, already in schools around the nation, pays students as much as $1,000 for anonymous tips to police about crime in and around city schools.

Mathiesen said he will report back to the association at its next meeting April 14. "We'll still try to ask the school board to rescind the policy, provided the neighborhood
association agrees with that," Mathiesen said.

Off-campus activities

The program also encourages youths to report criminal activity by their peers, such as underage drinking and drug possession, even if it happened after school.

A goal to get the program in all of the city's middle and high schools is close to completion, according to Sgt. Larry Linn, who oversees the program for the Portland school police. The program received the blessing of Mayor Vera Katz and several school superintendents, including Ben Canada, when it was unveiled in January.

It is paid for by private donations.

The program, which is also in the Parkrose and David Douglas school districts, gives out
one telephone number -- 916-3222 -- for students to use to report crime anonymously.

Mathiesen pointed to a recent situation involving his son, an eighth-grader at Sellwood Middle School. He said his son and a classmate were falsely accused by another student of marijuana possession.

"As soon as my son knew someone had snitched on him he knew immediately who did it," Mathiesen said.

Mathiesen said he is against youths being paid to provide information to police, particularly when the tip involves drugs and guns. At the high school level, where some students are in street gangs and have access to guns, the potential for retribution is real, he said.

Youths should report students who take weapons to school out of personal responsibility, Mathiesen said, but any program that pays them to do so sends the wrong message and has the potential for abuse.

Police and other program proponents say the informant's identity is kept confidential. When an informant calls, he or she is assigned a number, Linn said. No names are given, and the calls are not recorded electronically.

"I can only speak for how it has worked," Linn said, "and I've had none of the people call back and say, 'They found out my name.' "

Linn said the informant checks in with his number to determine if the information he provided resulted in an arrest or conviction. A citizens board meets to decide whether to pay informants and how much, to the maximum $1,000.

A Crime Stoppers representative meets with the informant to hand over the payment, or the payment is made in some other prearranged manner agreeable to the informant, Linn said.

Portland Officer Henry Groepper, who oversees Crime Stoppers for the police, said he can
tell within a matter of minutes if someone reporting a crime is not truthful or if there are ulterior motives.
 
Back to the original point, it's my personal belief that unless absolutely required by their duties police should wear easily identifiable uniforms...not to consist of black ninja suits and masks.
 
I agree, however in many jurisdictions, police are expected to respond to crime 24/7. What about these "off-duty" cops?

"What paid informant system are you referring to?"

Connecticut's "Turn in your neighbor" program comes to mind. Of course, those stoolies are paid with increased civic pride.

Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
The black uniforms always bothered me too. Not because I think cops should dress a certain way, but becuase black gives such good contrast against a variety of backgrounds. That's why black makes a good color for the centers of targets. Even at night there's usually some light source and black is not, generally speaking, the best color to wear.

The masks are there to protect the identity of the cops. Shouldn't be necessary when busting some low-level crack dealer, but when cops go after serious criminals who are involved in criminal conspiracies, (i.e. gangs, mafia) I can understand the precaution.

Still searching for cases where bad info from informants (who are themselves criminals) has gotten people killed. Didn't bookmark any of the latest stories and haven't seen one in a while. It does happen, though.
 
Jack99,
I do agree with you on on informants giving bad info sometimes. They are usually BGs that are trying to save their own necks by giving info. They do have some pretty wild stories at times. I think how professional LEOs avoid problems with this info received from informants is by trying to verify it prior to acting on it, surveillance is one big way. It does take more time to do this and some guys will cut corners. The way I look at it when I receive info is the one thing I do have is time, 19.5 years to be exact.

When you said paid informant system I thought you were talking about what Hollywood portrays. Beat cop gives slimeball $20 to tell the cop who killed John Doe.

Matt VDW,
In my little piece of the world I don't think we have more plainclothes officers. We have worked special events in plainclothes and we are just eyes and ears for the uniforms. If we want to get involved you have to be wearing identifying clothing. Our fear has been officer safety concerns. For example, I am attempting to arrest somebody and a good samaritan thinks I am a BG assaulting somebody and knocks me over the head with a brick.
 
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