Tobacco musings

D

DC

Moderator Emeritus
Was watching the news and anti-cancer vaccines are being tested with very much promise of benefit. With an extensive background in the biological sciences, I knew this would ultimately happen.

So, without getting into the right/wrong of sueing Big Tobacco...for the sake of this debate lets assume its a given.

How come, with all these suits and Tobacco losing...money isn't going into scientific/medical research and drug companies? The Feds and States spend their money on social programs ( The Rob Reiner Calif tax funds welfare and illegal aliens) totally unrelated to tobacco damage, individuals' families become millionaires but no where do I hear that any of this money is going to medical cures and vaccines. Why?

Notice not a single solitary Congresscritter or Senator has asked this question? Methinks there is free money and they want to spend it like drunken sailors instead of actually addressing the problem that gave the money to them.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
DC, it's all about taxes. The lawsuits by the government are effectively taxes, and they add more taxes on top of those. Once they are collected, it's all part of the pie to be divided by our holy politicians.

As soon as they have spoken enough about the poor, misled smoker to gouge the beegeesus out of the tobacco companies, and once the cash is in the till, the story changes to "Help smokers? Screw 'em! They knew what they were getting into. I have votes to buy, here, stop bothering me."
 
DC makes a very good point.
When I used to live in Richmond - Home town to Phillip Morris this subject was often heard anytime you went out to eat.
The Fat Cats dont give a rats rear about healing damage. They just want them to pay because they are evil. The money goes into ever deeper pockets. The people who are actually hurt by a loss or illness due to tobacco abuse get such a tiny fraction you cant even put a "%" to it.

Guys - this is important to us... (I dont smoke and find a room full of second hand smoke to be revolting - but I still defend it... it's your right if you want to - just please dont infringe on mine - Okay? Oh - and those butts... Dont Flick'm... throw them away. I dont go to your place and flick boogers on your stuff) The reason it is so important is that it is legal precident to take it to the company instead of the end user who decided he wanted it. You have a right to smoke. You choose to smoke - or you choose not to. A person who buys a firearm and some time later chooses to do something illegal with it - Well same thing. That person made his choice. And when it is all over - The responibility should sit square on his shoulders. If a dealer sells you a FORD and MR Jackoff goes out, drinks or is on his cell phone and doesnt watch where he is going and slamms into a flock of nuns crossing the street - Ford had nothing to do with it!
Here is the problem - Mr Jackoff is only worth what? 100K at the most? But Ford is worth how much more? 100M? Billion?
Who are they going to go after to get a cut?

You just watch - its only a matter of time untill "Detroit" comes under fire because a car can be operated by drunk kids. But this will be long after the Gun Culture is held responsible for every inbred idiot who chooses the darkside. These people making these suits - they dont care about anything but the money. They are liek the ultimate Darwin creature a evolved shark swimming the city looking for the fresh scent of a money trail to attack.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
Even if med researchers got the tobacco lotto money they are not really concerned with cure, AMA and all the others have too much to lose in grants,trusts,government asistance, and many more I'm sure I haven't even heard of. Were these to all suddenly disapear because of miricle cure they would have to invent knew illness.

As has been said of Saddam, if he didn't exist we would create him.

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited October 22, 1999).]
 
As an aside my family has farmed tobacco for over 100 years. Now they are losing their shirts. Keep in mind gun companies have stockholders to answer to and enough corporate lawyers to help fight off the "wolves at the gate". A farmer has to put food in his/her child's mouth. These type of lawsuits make me sick. For every "hotshot" lawyer who wants to make a name or ten million by filings these suits, there are at least 15 people who are directly effected by the lawsuit.

Gator


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Root Hog or Die Poor
 
The governmentisnt interested in a cure of lung cancer caused by tobacco. The government IS tobacco. They WANT it so they can TAX it. The government makes more on the tax than the grower and the cigarette manufacturer.

If/when a vaccine is found and the govt can no longer claim the money they ALLEGEDLY spent on cancer, do you think the tax will go away? Do you think the farmer will get a better profit? Do you think the cow will jump over the moon???

Tobacco is a tax crop PERIOD.

Incidently, since the govt has got all the tobacco health money, have medicare or other taxes come down?


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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Last week I caught a news story about the Tobacco Money from the State suits.
Back in '95 when the States were formualting the class action suit (to reimburse the states for health costs), the State of Maryland had a bidding process (sealed bids) for lawyers to represent the State. Some lawyer named De Angelis (?...richer than God, owns a major league ball team and big Demo contributer) won by sealed bid...his deal was 25% of the take, he gets paid out of the 1st installment(total paid over 10 yrs) and he'd pay all expenses. Apparently most lawyers submitted standard 33% and split expenses. Maryland was tickled, thought it was a great deal so they accepted.
Well, the States won, and Maryland got a much bigger award than they anticipated (~$4 billion instead of 1.5). The 1st installment has been paid...however Maryland's ($1 billion)is locked up in escrow cuz MD has decided the lawyer is getting too much and wants to break the original contract...they want to give him 12.5% and spread that over 10 yrs.
Gov. Glendenning was whining because the lawyer would get all of the first installment (as per contract) and he (Glendenning) couldn't start up his Crop Research and Child Education projects.

Note that he never mentioned any money going into the State Medical care fund.

The lawyer did his job, absorbed all expenses and now MD's greed is running down her leg.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Good for Gov. Gladhanding. When you crawl in bed with slime you are bound to get some on you.

The whole tobacco deal is nothing but legalized extortion. The government and Clintonites can't raise taxes so they attempt to extort money from corporate America.

The settlement is a total smokescreen. The last I heard some of the states were using the money to put in sidewalks and sewers. It's free money. Youth smoking is higher than ever.

The hypocrisy of the Justice Dept. bringing the latest suit is sickening. We have known that Cigs were no good for you since the 50's. Did the gov't outlaw them? Of course not. They were too busy collecting the billions of dollars in taxes stamped on every pack and carton.

And don't get me going on the lawyers bringing these suits. Follow the money.
 
All of the tobacco extortion money is suspect and will never go near its proscribed "plaintiff"- state and federal health costs due to the product. It kills me to watch state and local government wrangle over the bounty which is the moral equivilent of that taken by seagoing pirates. The major sum of this robbery has gone into the hands of a few select trial lawyer individuals and subsequent organizations who utterly depend upon the force of government to harness their prey. We should only respect this unprecedented relationship because this combined force shall soon be our adversary on another front. The most important one.
 
I guess I have a different take on this than most of you do. Cigarettes are the only product which, when used as intended by the manufacturer, will kill the user. The manufacturers have known this, but tried to downplay the hazards of smoking to increase their sales. Guns, when used as intended by the manufacturer, only kill targets, elk, or crazed madmen who break into your home at night. If the government had a legitimate case against the cigarette companies, the same charges do not apply to gun manufacturers.

As far as the tobacco suit money not going toward health care costs, I have no disagreement with any of you.
 
The Federal Government is neck deep in tobacco.

Tried to buy some tobacco seed on a trip to NC recently, guess what? You have to buy it from the friendly Feds... who control who raises tobacco, where, how much & when with subsidies and allotments.

The BATF at work protecting us...

Plus, the US has been subsidizing tobacco exports to Korea for over 40 years with taxpayer money.

The system is sick, very sick. It's time somebody sued the Feds!
 
The federal government has intruded into so many areas of our lives that we wouldn't even be able to catalog their involvement. It's time to rein 'em in and, oh, yes,

Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
Dennis - sounds like a good idea. I would be glad to help on that little project.

Is there Lawyer in the house?

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
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