To FUD

A

Ala Dan

Member in memoriam
Greetings FUD, I don't want to start a war
over which firearm is best; but while reading
your response to another post concerning the
S&W tactical series, you stated that with these firearms S&W could hold their own against Sig's & Beretta's. I couldn't disagree with you more. Beretta's maybe; but
Sig's are in a class by themselves. No generation of S&W auto can rival Sig, for
"world class perfection", straight out of
the box!!! :) And as far as 1st generation
S&W auto's; I did not see anything wrong
with the model 39. I owned one in nickel,
that was absolutely emaculate; but that's
back when S&W's quality control was a bit
better. :eek:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Ala Dan,

Handgun ownership is very much a personal thing just like cars -- some will spend $60,000 on an SUV while others will spend the same amount on a sports car. Who's to say one is better than the other?

I own a Beretta and I have shot my friend's SIG and as far as accuracy & reliability, I was not able to see any difference -- no jams with any of them and groups were about the same. I didn't measure them with a ruler. Maybe if I did, the SIG might have had a tigher group but by visually looking at it, I couldn't tell any difference.

Additionally, S&W has some safety features not found on the SIGs -- the SIG's only have a decocker while on the S&W, the decocker is also a safety which prevents the gun from being fired until the safety is raised. My ex-partner's uncle owes his life to that feature when in a striggle for his service pistol the BG pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Those few seconds, while the BG was first shocked and then tried to figure out how to disengage the safety, gave him enough time to regain control of the situation and subdue the BG. If he had been carrying a SIG, he would have been shot and maybe even killed at that point.

With safety features that others don't have and from personal experience, accuracy and reliability that are at least the equal of others, make the S&W autos the best around.

That's my opinion and you are certainly entitled to disagree with it. That's the good thing about this board -- everyone is able to share their thoughts and ideas with others. That said, do you drive a sports car or SUV?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tecolote:
... I've shot SW 3rd Gen autos side by side with SIG Sauers, Berettas and Glocks, and I can tell you that the SW hold their own. They're fine pistols ...[/quote]

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Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
 
Ala Dan,
Don't take this wrong, but "what planet have you been on" for the past few years?? There are loads of anti-S&W auto folks out there, don't get me wrong. It's just funny that most, if not all, of them paint a completely different picture of what is good about S&W auto's relating to 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations. The common "complaint" is that the first and second generations were "junk", and that S&W is coming around, but still "doesn't get it" in the third generation. For the record, I agree with you that the first generations were just fine, thank you. They did everything a firearm designed and manufactured in the 50's through the late 70's were supposed to do. The Second generation guns fixed some things, were better, and generally were fine guns (again, IMO). The Third Gens have gone a long way to improve ergonomics, and have provided some outstanding examples of products for different shapes and sizes of hands. Have S&W pistols been without problems?? NO. Have they stopped improving them? NO. Everyone seems to have jumped on the latest fad guns - Glock, Sig, etc. Who developed the first double action high capacity pistol? Right, Smith & Wesson. Where were the other wonder products then? Not around. It is easy to come to market 20-25 years later, produce a modern product that works, and get it mostly right. Pioneers get arrows in them. To ping on S&W for their early products is unfortunate. Glock and Sig autos are good guns and have a good reputation. But, I think S&W autos do a good job as well. I know lots of folks that agree. Lots of folks that did not consider a S&W because of the so-called "conventional wisdom" of folks that council against them, but don't necessarily have direct experience with S&W autos. Like I said before, don't take this wrong. You have your opinion, and that's fine. Others have a different opinion, and that's fine too. This thing generally starts to sound like "which is better, your Chevy or my Ford"? Please tell me, what you SPECIFICALLY don't like about S&W pistols. Something vague like "quality control" just doesn't cut it. I will tell you the reason I don't own a Sig. They put the slide stop directly above the grip. In recoil, my blasted thumb pushes it up, and it locks the slide back. Nothing wrong with the gun, it is MY technique. I don't go around telling folks that Sigs are a bad design because of it. Help me with this please. What is your direct experience with S&W pistols. ......SmithNut
 
Hi Dan. I can be a wordy SOB. Sorry. If you read my post in the vain of a friendly debate, great. Don't take it as anything worst, please. Sorry about the planet comment. I am posting from Neptune, and sometimes the conversion to English sounds harsher than it is supposed to. :> ) .....SmithNut
 
Hello SmithNut; Greetings From The Old Deep
South. I appreciate your comments; criticism
is helpful to all. There is really nothing
wrong with Smith & Wesson auto loaders; with
the exception that they are built to with
stand an earthquake!!! :) Most models I really
like; however I do not currently own any. :(
Most of my experience with S&W semi-auto's
has come through my profession as a LEO;
primarily the 39, 59, 459, 659, 669, 5904,
5906, 3913, 4506, and 4516. I noticed in the
early 80's when I carried a S&W Model 19;
everyone seemed to have jumped on the band
wagon, and switched to the auto loader's.
Mainly this was attributed to Smith & Wesson's upgrade to "better weapons", as
you stated; and in about 1985 the introduction of "Combat Tupperware". Keep
in mind that Sig's were introduced in the
U.S. Of A. back in 1975. There are still
a few "professionals" that prefer the likes
of the "wheel gun"; but they are getting
harder to find. And speaking of the early
Sig's, I know a police chief here locally
that has one which is marked "Browning BDA".
Don't worry, it's not for sale; as I've
already tried to buy it!!! :) In closing,
I would like to say and I quote, " I've
never met a Smith that I did not like".
Recently purchased a S&W Model 28 .357
Magnum with 6" tube, via the net. She's
a beautiful piece; complete with pinned
barrel and recessed chamber's. It's
my understanding that these feature's
were halted in 1982? :eek:

Best Wishes For All,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
The various religious dominations of gun owners is always interesting. When it comes to failures you find them in ALL guns. Selling and using guns for a living most of my life you see all kinds of failures out of the box in all brands. You see guns with parts missing, no rifling in bores and other problems.
YOUR brand is not immune to such things. The big manufacturers don't make junk and never have. The olde world craftsmanship we used to see in the 60's and prior are gone in all guns. The Glock isn't a polished gem, and a Sig looks like something issued from a third world nation. Colt's aren't much better, and S&W has "vintages" of guns, but that is cosmetic. They shoot. Yes, the Sigma shoots fine and the Colt Eagle ain't all bad. You can still find Yugo's and Chevettes on the road. Brand loyalty is fine, but which gun is best ranks up there with who's church is right.

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Specialists in the use and training of lethal force.
 
This thread is why I enjoy this board. Interesting, insightful and differing opinions expressed without personal insult or the attempt to sway but to enlighten and educate others.

Thanks, now maybe Bush and McCain can take note.
 
Ala Dan,

Back in the early 1980's Browning had an arrangement with both Beretta and Sig. Beretta made a 13+1 shot .380 pistol and Browning sold it as the "BDA380" (I bought it new nearly 20 years ago and haven't had a single jam with it EVER -- not even one) and they sold the Sig as the regular BDA (the 'BDA' in both instances stood for 'Browning Double Action').

P.S.: I responded to your question -- I was having e-mail problems yesterday (it was a good thing I was able to connect to the internet, otherwise I would not have been able to get the hotline number and call in the problem).

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Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
 
The thing that is a big turn off for me - and for many others as well is the slide mounted levers. I have the same beef against Beretta and Taurus and Ruger.
I HATE slide mounted safties. This is a personal opinion - just like my dislike of the flavor Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream... I like Mint, I like Choc chip... Just not together. I like safeties, like decockers - just not on the slide, thanks.
Now Taurus made a Beretta clone that had a frame mounted lever - and I liked that. Berretta also makes a special "combat" model with a frame mounted lever as well... I like that too. HELLO? RUGER? Can you hear me?
S&W makes an admitedly solid gun. S&W makes good triggers too... If they worked just a tad on the grip angle, and moved the lever to the frame - LEAVING OUT THAT DAMNED CIRCLE THEY LEFT ON THE ^!@#$^%!!@@!945 - then they would have a good gun.

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited February 24, 2000).]
 
I share George's dislike of slide-mounted safeties. I also dislike magazine disconnectors and since S&W puts them in all their non-Sigma pistols, I've avoided S&W autos.

I suppose that S&W is stuck with the magazine disconnect "feature", though: if they were to stop using them, the nitwits would be lining up with lawsuits claiming that the company negligently discontinued a "safety feature".
 
I've never fired a smith... but I have to agree with george.. slide mounted safeties YUCK. Its just NOT my cup of tea (ok ONE exception my pa63 or walther sized auto i can reach the lever.. on a full sized pistol its ungainly)

And NOTHING I've seen matches the fit and finish of a colt made in the 50's.... gorgeous stuff.

Too bad nobody makes em like that anymore.

Dr.Rob
 
I've shot S&W pistols close to two decades and I actual prefer the safety where it is since I can easily flip it on or off with my thumb without a second thought and I find the safeties on other guns hard to get use to -- I guess it all boils down to what you are use to and what you have been initially exposed to.
 
Ok now I am really offended! You have insulted one of my favorites, and my honor has been damaged.

Mint Chocolate Chip is the best ice cream! :)

Ok just kidding. I actually like cookie dough the best.
 
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