To all veterans...

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Epyon

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http://www.sacbee.com/content/lifestyle/story/14275816p-15085367c.html

Found this article on a soldier who died, and yet the VA won't allow his religious symbol; and it just bugs me that for a country that is supposed to be the world's greatest symbol of freedom they are denying this man his religious rights. Soldiers put themselves in harms way so that we don't have to, I would hope that we push the VA to correct the error of their ways. I think that if you served this country and died for it, they should honor your memorial with the religious symbol of your choice. It shouldn't matter what your religion is, just because it's not the majority doesn't mean it should be marginalized.


Epyon


P.S: I've never been in the military, but I have family who are currently serving back home and some of them were freedom fighters back when Pakistan was attacking us in the 1970s, I have high school friends who are serving now.

EDIT: Apparently the site listed above requires registration, here's another site that has the same story but gives credit to the source: http://meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/wicca_soldier.htm
 
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Try being anything other than Christian or Jewish in the US Armed Forces. I had to raise hell, no pun intended, all the way up to my shirt to get "Atheist" stamped on my dogtags. The E-2s and E-3s at Personnel flatly refused to do it until Chief ordered them to. :barf:
 
I used to help process soldiers on a regular basis. When we got to the religious part I had a few that put agnostic or atheist. Thats what I put in the database. I did not not say a word about it. However, there are a few that will pout about doing it. Its America after all and they ought to be able to worship as how they see fit. Ill have to check out the religious codes for personnel and see what they have...
 
I assume that this is the story we are speaking of: http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?S=3935410&nav=0bov

Wicca is a recognized religion by the Dod, so it can go on dogtags, but it is not 'officially' recognized by the VA so they won't put it on headstones. There is a campaign to change that.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/grav_mark.htm

As far as what goes on dogtags Coinneach, that's probably more about who's making the tags. I'm sure there is a regulation somewhere that lists exactly what can and can't be on them. OTH, 'athiest' isn't a religion as far as I know, but rather the absence of one. 'None, or N/A is certainly allowable on the tags. The point of the dogtags is not to make a statement, but to see that a soldier's religious wishes are accomodated if they are injured or die.

Interestingly enough, 'Athiest' is an approved VA religion and you can get that on the marker. Also, the regulation is not what you can or can't have on the marker, but what the VA will supply, since the markers are no cost to veterans. You CAN get one without a symbol and have that added at your own expense.

Here's the application for headstones, including authorized symbols:
http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/40-1330.pdf#search='401330'
 
When I was in, you could get "no preference" on your tags, which is what I got. Probably would have been easier for the military to have stamped "?" instead.
 
To Mike...

That's a different story, the one I posted was of a fallen soldier. However that link is also relevant to this thread.


Epyon
 
Lucky you are in the USA

Many other countries would not even consider discussing it. Considering the situation and the problem, the person should just go a head and spend their own money and be done with it. Kind of like a custom item in my opinion.

After market is what I am getting at.
If you didn't belong to the big three 50 years ago it never got onto your dog tag. Let alone your headstone.

P=Protestant
C=Catholic
J= Judaism/Jewish

We have come along way with individualism, some think we have gone to far and need to get back to some sort of National Identification.

Me I am an Agnostic so I take what I get and it is not that big of a deal.

I believe his particular thoughts are still considered a cult at this point and time. Takes awhile to be a religion and if he is the first then it will take at least 100 others just like years to got into the records.

HQ
 
Harley Quinn, though I understand your views, and I myself am Deist; I am inclined to disagree with you. I think National Identification is shown through the fact that they fought for our flag and paid the ultimate price, there is no greater form of expression than that. I would think that each individual being allowed to show their religious preference for their grave allows people from all walks of life to fully understand that people of ALL faiths fight for this country. However, if an individual must pay for their own marker I think that should apply to everyone of all faiths, that way it's fair and no one can complain about preferential treatment. As for Wicca itself, it is recognized as a religion. But regardless if somone comes from a major religion or a small one, I think that when military personnel are buried with their preferred religious symbol it is a way to honor one of their last wishes. Some people feel their religion is of major importance in life in comparison to others.


Epyon
 
Epyon

You mention...
But regardless if somone comes from a major religion or a small one, I think that when military personnel are buried with their preferred religious symbol it is a way to honor one of their last wishes. Some people feel their religion is of major importance in life in comparison to others.
*****

I agree, it will be interesting to see how it goes. To bad religion is such a big thing to so many. It just seems like a silly thing to fight over IMHO.

One thing to fight and kill because of danger, defense etc. quite another to fight to prove your God is stonger then mine. Sad we have come so far in other things but we are so backwards in that respect.

Wicca and Celts. Roman armies wiped them out because of their religion, and we are still at it.

It depends on whose ox is getting gored I guess. Means nothing to the dead solider, means a lot to the wife. Some might even go so far as to say that is the reason the Copter went down, he was a jinx.

The whole thing is pretty wacko. IMHO

HQ
 
"whatever one thinks about the Wiccan faith, there should be no doubt … that the First Amendment … provides for religious freedom for all individuals."

Can't argue with that. I know quite a few people I've served with who were Bhudist, Muslim, Wiccan, and Pagan. My Section Sergeant is Wiccan.
I knew one guy who had "Jedi on his dog tags.
Personaly I believe there's a god, that's about as far as I've gotten so far.
Wiccan is a Fed recognized religion. "Do as ye will. Harm ye none." or something like that.

"Stewart, who served in the Army in South Korea and Operation Desert Storm in Kuwait and Iraq in 1991, was awarded a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star after his death." How many people do you know who've served in two wars and earned a bronze star? I've been in the army almost five years now and haven't met that many. Basically what I'm saying is this is BULL. Thanks for the support VA. It's nice to know you care. Get one of those little yellow support magnets for the back of your car and it'll be OK.
 
Harley Quinn said:
To bad religion is such a big thing to so many. It just seems like a silly thing to fight over IMHO.
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Perhaps... But one of those "little" things is why we have an America in the first place.
 
To bad religion is such a big thing to so many.
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If your religion is the kind that frames your entire perspective on life and its meaning--and most religions I can think of do so--I don't know how a truly religious person could not make it such a big thing. After all, it's framing your entire life.
It just seems like a silly thing to fight over IMHO.
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How many religions are engaged in religious wars these days? Certainly not the Wiccans, Taoists, Jainists, or Buddhists. (Actually, I'm not aware of any Buddhist wars now or in the past, to name just one example.) Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism aren't currently engaged in wars of expansion. If Shinto is on the march, it's doing so by stealth.

I can think of only one major religion that is on the war march, and the warring faction isn't even the entire religion but a small branch of it.

Regardless, the soldier in question has a right to his beliefs. Freedom of religion is part of the great Constitution that every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine swears to defend.
 
WhyteP38...

From the history I've read, I only know of one war for Buddhism (Yeah irony of ironies.) a north Indian king named Asoka fought around the border of current Nepal and then moved into the Bengal region, and further south.


Harley Quinn, yes I do understand your beliefs of being agnostic, and seeing religion as something small. I personally don't even follow any actual organized religion either. However, from an objective point this wasn't over a religious debate that consisted of "My god is better than your god" yes there have been pointless wars over religion, and yes we can go on and on about things like the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition, but I feel the point of this soldier's story is that his faith was very much a part of his life more than how you and me view religion, and so it'd be common courtesty to grant him a marker on his tomb because his faith was that important to him. Basically it's about religious equality, the VA should let him have that marker because they do that for everyone else.


Epyon
 
Correct, like Don King keeps saying

Only in America.

In certain societies it has been a weakness, every little fiefdom had its own thing going for it (japan) When they united they went and tried to conquer whoever they decided to. Doing a pretty good job for awhile.

In America during our struggles we have said one thing and applied another. This is how we have come to the stage we are at. If not for the Constitution it would be quite a different place, everyday someone is chipping away at the foundation of it.

It will be interesting to see if the civilian laws will overturn the military might.

UCMJ is quite a bit different than the civilian section of society.
Now that he has come into that quarter, I feel you are correct.

On the net I have the ability to state my thoughts. The board and forum allow me that right.

In reality in a city or town I would be having a pretty tough time if I walked around with a nine pointed symbol (star) in a Jewish community.
Philistines had the 9 point, the Jewish had the 6. David and Goliath still at it, difference's are still there. 3500 years or so later. Bizzare to say the least.

Gangs are another thing that are coming back, taking 25 percent of our urban youth before they reach the age of 25. Either dead or in jail.

One of the reason's I have chosen to be what I am. To much hypocrisy. Really, think about it.

HQ
 
From the history I've read, I only know of one war for Buddhism (Yeah irony of ironies.) a north Indian king named Asoka fought around the border of current Nepal and then moved into the Bengal region, and further south.
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Well, not exactly. Asoka had consolidated his empire prior to his conversion to Buddhism, according to the Buddhist sources (of which there are many) and the non-Buddhist sources (of which there are scarcely any) that I've read (three semesters of college courses, plus my own independent study). If so, his conversion happened after his battles, and his battles were not to force Buddhism upon his foes.

Where the sources mainly differ is whether his conversion was true and significant or a clever strategem to further strengthen his hold on power (a non-violent populace is less likely to cause problems). The Buddhist sources claim the first reason; the non-Buddhist sources claim the second reason. Being a bit of a skeptic, I tend toward the non-Buddhist view.
 
To WhyteP38 and Harley Quinn...

Whyte: Thank you for clarifying that, the last time I read up on Asoka was high school. (Feels like forever ago.)

Harley: Yeah, I went through my soul searching for quite a long while before I came to my own conclusions about faith in general so I understand exactly what you mean. I also whole heartedly agree that what's happening to the Constitution is frightening. Sometimes I wonder will things get fixed through legislation? Or is there going to be another tumbling down into a second civil war?
 
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