Time, Time on the Range...(kinda long)

4

4T

Inactive
Hello All,
Been lurking a while trying to learn as much as I could before jumping in with a lot of silly questions, but here goes... I'm about a week away from purchasing my first firearm. Took damn near a year to get my ID & permit (In NJ, demonstrably the rectum of the firearm universe...). In any case, I've pretty much narrowed it down to a semi-auto, either 9mm or .45. 10mm & 357sig are tempting because of their power(Guns & Ammo, 2000 annual issue, has some fairly comprehensive tables covering specific ammo, velocities, & energy at 50 yards), but the choice of guns is more limited & I fear the ammo costs might limit my time on the range. There's wisdom in spending a _lot_ of time on the range with a weapon you may ever need to use under duress. Although this gun will spend 99% of its time on the range, at least for the short term, it will also act as a defensive weapon in my home should the need (not likely, but hey one never knows...) ever arise.
You've all heard the phrase "Don't shoot a bear with a 9mm, you'll only piss it off..." I'm not sure how true that is, but the military seems to feel that .45 is what it takes. I'm inclined not to argue. I hope I'll hear some convincing arguments for the stopping power of 9mm vs 45. All things equal, I'd be tempted to go with the 9 due to the lighter weight & cheaper ammo.
Purchase price is not a huge issue, although I'd sure like to keep it below $700.00 if I can. Less is always better as long as it doesn't compromise safety, reliability. I tend to maintain all my toys meticulously, so care/maintanance shouldn't be a problem. Another big issue is the availability of hi-cap mags. I like what I've heard about Glocks & Sigs so far, but I couldn't find any info on the availability of big mags for these fine mfgs. Can they be had by mere civilians such as myself? The CZ75B is interesting, cheap hi-caps, and a lot of you praise it. Parts availability might be a problem? Of course the 1911 variants would also be a good choice, as they are easy to work on & parts are abundant. The design is well proven. The HiPower is also sweet.
Is a 45 significantly more expensive than 9 to shoot?
The most important thing is reliability/safety. I'm almost tempted to get a revolver, since most of you feel its the closest thing to 100% reliable out there, but I've got my heart set on a semi-auto. Any one have any hard data or personal experience on which makes/models are more/less prone to jams, misfires, etc.? That would be much appreciated. I've already read the "worst gun" threads, I guess I'm looking for the most reliable semi-auto in 9mm and 45 that can be had. Tough call, I know. Well to anyone who's read this far, thanx, sorry to be long winded. Once I narrow my list to a half dozen models or so, I'll hit the shops & ranges around here & hopefully be able to shoot a few of them before plunking down any cash. I'll no doubt have a few more questions for you all.
 
Hey-

I am biased here, because I own and love a SIG P225. I love Sigs. But I have reasons. They are very, very reliable. But so are Glocks, 1911's, etc. I would like to believe that the Sig is about the best of the bunch "out of the box." But what you should do is exactly what you said. Hit the shops and ranges, shoot them, play with them, etc. See what YOU like. That's what matters.

I bought the Sig P225 (9mm, 8rnd mags) after trying a good many guns. I shot Berettas, Colt revolvers, H&K USPs, a lot of stuff. One day my range had two Sigs, a P225 and a P226. The 225 is a good bit smaller than the 226, and the instant that I picked that gun up, I had a feeling that I was going to love it and buy it. And I did. It just fits me. And the low cap mags are not a huge concern, as it is a range gun primarily. I am considering a P228, as they are very very similar to the 225, but have 13 rnd mags.

If you want a hi-cap, try the Sig P226. You should be able to find 15 and 20 Rnd mags fairly easily. There are LOTS of these out there. You can legally buy any hi-cap that was made before August of 1994.

Try them all out, then decide.

-Tim
 
4T, 10mm is actually easy to get. Plinker can be had from Georgia Arms for $9.50 per pack of 50, and it's good stuff.

I'm a Glock fan myownself, so I'd recommend a 29 for concealed carry. Dunno if you can get full-cap mags for them like you can for the 20 (Glock's other 10mm).

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
I had the same dilemma about a month ago. I narrowed it down to either a .45 in Sig 220 or Kimber custom. In 9 mm it would of been a CZ 75. And that revolver thing was always nagging at me.

As far as a caliber thats fun to shoot at the range, I really enjoy my .45. If money is not an issue, I strongly suggest this caliber. However, because of Nato, 9 mm is more available and signifigantly cheaper (think .22 cents a bullet for .45, and about .14 for 9mm).

Here's the deal. After purchasing the Kimber I realized I had overlooked something every new gun owner should consider. Cleaning the damn thing !! Upkeep on this piece is a bitch. I am very meticulous, so every time I touch it, I have to wipe it with a rag. It took me three hours to clean and get my gun back together, and in the process, I have probably put unnecesary and premature wear on the gun. So, in retrospect, a good first gun is something you can beat up and not worry too much about it. If I could go back, I would get a S&W .357 with a four in barrel.
Why ? Accurate, fun too shoot, .38 ammo is cheap, easy to clean, an extremely versatile gun. I hate to recommend the CZ 75. Primarily because it has been getting so much praise latetly, I worry the price is going to go up befor I get my hands on one
: ) .
 
Hi 4T,
I also live in NJ, and went thru what you are now describing. My criteria were the same, target shooting and just in case home defense. My much agonizing I decided the 1911 because of its incredible history, accuracy, power, ability to customize, etc, etc. I decided on a Kimber Target from JC Armory (www.jcarmory.com - great guy to deal with) for about $650. Because of the cost of the .45 ammo I also got a Ruger .22 Target pistol (used). (I was wise enough to get 2 permits at the same time.) The only things I would change is I should have gotten the Ruger 22/45 instead of the .22 competition target and gotten a Kimber Custom Royal instead of the Target (because I now realize without night sights home defense is a shot in the DARK, so I need to start budgeting for night sights).

Well when you finally get your pistol & if you live up in North Jersey send me an email at duncker@colt45.net and I can give you the lowdown on every target range west of New York City.
 
I think if ammo price is a big consideration that 9mm is a good way to go. One other thing to consider is type of ammo. If you are not allowed to use any sort of hollowpoints you would be better served with a larger caliber ala .45ACP
 
Hey, think about this! For about $400, you can purchase a S&W model 686+ w/ 4 inch barrel and have enough money for a down payment on your next purchase. You can buy a EAA/Tangfoglio 9mm for about under $300 w/ a hi cap magazine. That is $700 for two guns that are both inexpensive to operate and are fun and accurate to shoot. Get a piece of both world's.

OR, you can put all your money down and get one of these Sig P220's

sigP220.JPG


Robert
 
If it were me I'd get a SIG Sauer, but I'm biased. Glocks are great but the mushy trigger and slippery in sweaty hands polymer isn't for eveyone. Sure you cn get a grip condom but those just make the pistol look more unattractive, IMHO. I'd try to fire as many pistols as posible before choosing. After doing this I think you'll agree that SIG Sauers are tough to beat.

9mm
Slim compact P225 or P239
Compact P228 (the best balanced of the SIG Sauers IMO)
Full size P226

40SW/357 SIG
Slim compact 239
Compact 229
Full size P226

45
Compact P245
Full size P220

Most accurate production single action 9mm bar none
P210

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Hey 4t,
Also in NJ, I just got my 2 permits after a long wait. Wife just bought me a Sig 229 and ordered the .357 sig barrel conv too. She says I have to wait till xmas to play with it. I went with the Beretta 92fs as my first gun. 3000 rouns so far without a failure, very durable and easy to clean. Like the 9mm to target shoot with alot as it is cheap and easy to get. You can get a brand new 92FS or the compact model at the Sportsmen Center in Bordentown for $499...best price for that gun I've ever seen live...
 
I agree with Robert, I got a used 686 for $300 and a new Ruger P95 for $300. Both of these guns are wonderful. You can still get hi-cap mags for the Ruger for about $15 each. Good luck.
 
If it will be a range gun (99% you said), get an all steel gun. You'll better be served by a CZ 75. Slide to frame fit is tight as well as barrel to slide fit, which is highly desirable for a range gun. Just my personal opinion..

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jj0287
 
You seem to be getting some good advice T4, let us know what you get. When purchasing my first handgun, I was under the impression that it would probably be my only purchase, so I invested a lot of time, energy, and money making sure I got something for the long haul. Boy was I wrong ! It's addictive T4, and if you really like shooting at the range, Desmond's "Ruger 22/45" suggestion is good advice. So here's my final suggestion :

1st gun---S&W 686 with a four inch barrel. Versatile and extremely easy to clean/use

2nd gun---sig P220 or a 1911--- This purchase speaks for itself

3rd gun---Ruger .22 target pistol --- Extremely cheap ($200 where I live,maybe cheaper elsewhere) and practical to shoot.once the .45/.357 ammo starts hurting your budget, this would be a good choice.
 
MusclesMcGee,
You must have been reading my mind!
Got your 3rd choice 1st (ruger), your 2nd choice (Kimber 1911), and now looking at used .357 Magnums as a inexpensive alternative to the other two. A used S&W 686 was top on my list. After Christmas it's time to do the NJ handgun application thing again.
 
Cool, I'm getting the Ruger .22 next. I had the exact same experience about two months ago, with the similar decisions to make. I got the Kimber first and will probably get a S&W sometime next year.
 
Just to add:

I went with a Sig P239 because it shoots 9mm, 357 Sig and 40S&W. The barrels are relatively inexpensive so you can start out with a 9mm and then add the .357 when you need.

Same argument works with the P229.

Roon
 
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