Tim McVeigh on 60 Minutes NOW (EST & CST). MUST SEE!

D

Dennis Olson

New member
This is a MUST WATCH interview. He is asked at one point, "Is it acceptable to use violence to express dissatisfaction with the government?" His response: "If we look to the U.S. government for our example, the answer would have to be YES."
 
Well, great.. now the anti's will try to lump gun owners in general in with this sadistic scum.....

That is what you meant, right??
 
Only if you believe he really is a "sadistic scum," but not if you think he's just a patsy.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
 
He aint no patsy. There is no concievable reason for him not to have proclaimed his innocence if he were innocent. That is a completely different legal issue than the biased jury issue which he is appealing.

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"I don't believe in individualism, Peter. I don't believe that any one man is any one thing which everybody else can't be. I believe that we are all equal and interchangeable."--Ellsworth Toohey
 
He's worse than sadistic, he is a cowardly, butchering, child-killing bastard and I would stand in line to get my chance to put a bullet in him.
 
Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of his ideology...he chose and destroyed a target that had bundles of kids and other innocents; the very Americans he purports to be concerned about. Humans can rewrite history and rationalize deeds, but fact is fact and God or gods will know the truth.
Fact: he killed 168 people and the majority were not the gov't agents he was after. His "message" should not obscure his deed.

He is a murderer, pure and simple, regardless of his rationalization.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
One thing that has always bothered me is trying to think he acted alone.
That aside the fact he fled the scene in a car without license plates doesn't see very smart. In fact way to dumb. Also a cop just happened to see him on the freeway. I've worked in the auto business with friends and driven many cars with no plates including in the city moving them around and never stopped. I once had expired plates on my car for several months when I forgot to renew them and nobody stopped me. So McVeigh has no plates and gets nailed within a short time of the bombing. What bad luck.
Also when stopped he had just killed dozens of people and meekly gives up to the single lone trooper who represents govt which he hates. One more would matter? I'm sorry boys and girls, but I get lost on that many coincidences and bad luck. The rest of that story is just as bad including the leg they never found a body for.
 
According to the information in the hitherto
supressed report acessable from the hyperlink in the above post of 11xray:

It was physically impossable for Tim McVeigh's truck bomb to do even one one
hundereth [one percent] of the damage that
was done to the Oklahoma Federal Building.

I conclude(in my opinion from the new information) that 99 % of the damage was
done by expolsives in contact with structual
support members of the federal building and not by the McViegh truck bomb parked some distance away from the building, outside.

It is impossable to produce more that 350 pounds of force per square inch on the
federal building by the McVeigh truck bomb.

All McVeigh did was to blow out some glass.
All the other damage was done by professional
demolition charges planted in contact with structual building support collumns.

The government , I suspect but can not prove, set a stage for us and we all fell for it.

McViegh was just their prearranged fall guy.

Boy, talk about climbing up on the body of dead victims to call for yet more gun control.

If the criminals dont make the victims for Klintonov to stand on, Klintonov will send his KGB to attend to the matter for him.
 
That thing about the plates too. I just looked on my car and noticed that my sticker
still reads Nov 1999.
I renewed my registration in Nov.99 and it is good to Nov.2001 and yet, I have been driving around for 4 months with the expired sticker still on my plate. The new sticker is in my glove compartment.

I have not been stopped yet but I have had the feeling that I was being watched.

Could be that the police run my plate number thrugh their computers and see that registration and insurance is current and dont bother with a bad bust.

Or I could be just real lucky.

I just wrote myself a note to put on the sticker on my plate in ball point on the back of my left hand.

Yes, I would forget if I didnt.Old age stinks.
 
I think it's pretty likely that McVeigh and Nichols did not do the bombing alone, even leaving aside the general's report. There was the "third man" of so much fame shortly following McVeigh's arrest whose identity was never resolved. Then there is the fact that the ambition-- if that's the word-- and the coordination required for what they did seems more plausibly that of a larger group.

I think it's pretty clear that the government strongly suspects that it just wasn't these two guys, too. The feds never did provide an explanation of just why they were passing around that sketch of the mystery man when later they assured us it was only McVeigh and Nichols after all. I figure that after a short time it must have become clear to the government that they weren't going to nail anybody else unless one of the two guys they already had started singing. And they must have seen that McVeigh realized from the get go that he was going to get the needle anyway even if he gave up twenty co-conspirators. Nichols' best bet was staying where he was; if starts naming others, he admits a deeper involvement than he was claiming. So, from the government's point of view it seems like it was best for them just to live with what they had. So they just stopped talking about any other conspirators, and acted like there really wasn't any reason to believe in them after all. (A stance the media was very willing to accommodate, it's interesting to observe.)

I don't think the government has forgotten about these possible other guys by any means. But unless someone shows up at militia meetings bragging about it, or posts on a newsgroup or something, there isn't much chance the feds'll find them now, I don't think. It's something to think about, though, the possibility of other guys who did that still at large.

Anyway, I wonder what the next biggest thing is that they never found someone for? The only thing that comes to mind right away would be that train from a few years ago. Do you all remember that Amtrak derailment out in the desert a few years ago? It was way out in the middle of nowhere, in something like the single most remote area ever crossed by a train anywhere in the world or something. Someone who they said was pretty knowledgeable about the railroads did it, left some made-up note behind, and as far as I know got away scot free. That's basically right, yes? Well, as I recall they never found anybody who looked good, and from what I read they didn't seem to have much more to go on than the standard list of disgruntled ex-employees and subscription lists to train-nut magazines.

In fact, as far as I remember, the guy just tore up the track but made sure the circuit which operated the warning lights was connected. This doesn't seem to me any great work of genius, from what I can tell. Who here has not seen a train warning light? How long would you have to think about it before it occurred to you that there must be some circuit in the tracks which has to be connected to keep the warning lights off?

In other words, it doesn't look like that act leaves a lot to go on. I don't except it'll be solved. And, not coincidentally, I don't expect it'll be mentioned again anywhere prominently on the news.
 
STORY

Gulf War, Gov't Angered McVeigh
Associated Press Online - March 12, 2000 19:01
By JUDITH KOHLER

Associated Press Writer

DENVER (AP) - Fighting in the Gulf War left Timothy McVeigh angry and disillusioned, he said in an interview broadcast Sunday on "60 Minutes," and the clashes at Waco and Ruby Ridge showed the federal government will use violence "as an option all the time."

In the interview with CBS' Ed Bradley, McVeigh did not say he was innocent of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995. The explosion killed 168 people.

In his only other interview since his 1997 conviction, that same year with the Buffalo News in New York, he also refused to say if he was the bomber or knew who was.

His lawyers last week filed an appeal of his conviction and death sentence, claiming pretrial publicity and defense attorneys' alleged leaks of inflammatory stories to the press deprived him of a fair trial.

McVeigh said during the Feb. 22 interview at the federal maximum-security prison in Terre Haute, Ind., that he was angry and bitter after fighting in the Gulf War, where he won several medals for heroism.

"I went over there hyped up, just like everyone else. Not only is Saddam evil; all Iraqis are evil. What I experienced, though, was an entirely different ball game. And being face to face close with these people in personal contact, you realize they're just people like you," he said.

His anger deepened when Randy Weaver's wife and son were shot and killed in a standoff with federal agents at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and dozens of members of the Branch Davidian sect died in a fire after a 51-day standoff with federal officers in Waco, Texas, eight months later.

McVeigh said U.S. citizens must keep government in check.

Asked if violence is a way to do that, McVeigh said: "If government is the teacher, violence would be an acceptable option.

"What did we do to Sudan? What did we do to Afghanistan? Belgrade? What are we doing with the death penalty? It appears they use violence as an option all the time," McVeigh said in a transcript provided by CBS.

He also told Bradley he could not ask him directly if he was the Oklahoma City bomber because of his appeal.

One of the claims in McVeigh's motion for a new trial is that images of him in an orange jumpsuit, leg irons and handcuffs two days after his arrest prejudiced the jurors against them because they were shown repeatedly. He said the pictures were "the beginning of a propaganda campaign."

Jurors who were interviewed by CBS, however, denied they were influenced by the pretrial publicity. "He's the Oklahoma City bomber, and there is no doubt about it in my mind," John Candeleria said.

While in the federal prison in Florence, Colo., McVeigh said he discovered that he and Ted Kaczynski, the convicted Unabomber, one of his cellblock neighbors, shared some concerns and were similar in that "all we wanted out of life was the freedom to live our own lives."

And if his latest appeal fails, McVeigh said he is prepared to die.

"I came to terms with my mortality in the Gulf War," he said.

Asked if he would do anything differently if he could relive his life, McVeigh said: "I've thought about that quite a few times. And I think anybody in life says, `I wish I could have gone back and done this differently, done that differently.'

"There are moments, but no one that stands out."



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Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...

Vote for the Neal Knox 13
 
The reason that Timmy boy was pulled over was because he was traveling in excess of 80 mph in a 65 mph zone. The reason that he surrendered to OHP Trooper Charlie Hanger is because Timmy is a coward who has the courage to kill others only when the odds are overwhelmingly in his favor.

Timmy has refused to talk about his innocence. Appeals notwithstanding, there is no conceivable legal harm in him publicly stating that he is innocent. Of course, he practically admitted his guilt when he stated that the only fundamental difference between him and the Unabomber is the fact that he, Timmy, thinks that the government is the problem, where the Unabomber, "Ted" according to Timmy, sees technology as "the problem." If Timmy were innocent you would think that there would be at least one other fundamental difference between them, wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

Timmy is right. He and "Ted" really are soulmates. They are both inferior feeling cowards who kill by long distance and use politics as a rationalization.



[This message has been edited by ellsworthtoohey (edited March 13, 2000).]
 
It just so happens that the guy who produced the recent WACO films is now in production on an OKC bombing film. There are far too many inconsistencies surrounding the bombing that stink of cover-up and conspiracy to just believe the government's bogus explanation.
 
Where was F-Troop ?

Why were there no BATF agents or employees present at thier REGIONAL office ( The Alfred Murrah Building ) on the morning of April 19, 1995 ?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

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Audemus jura nostra defendere
 
Guys, can we get back on-topic here?

The issue presented in Dennis' opening post was not McVeigh's guilt or innocence; it was that McVeigh pointed out the government's propensity to use exactly the same tactics as himself.

Discuss that, and leave the conspiracy stuff alone, k?

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"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson
 
If the U.S. government did use exactly the same tactics as Tim McVeigh, at least they'd be saving money. Ryder trucks full of ANFO are much cheaper than cruise missiles.
 
I think it was the gov't and ole Timmy boy. The gov't is too crooked not to beleive that they weren't behind it. Lets see.

1 JFK
2 MK-Altra, the CIA and LSD expirements
3 Randy Weaver
4 Waco

Plus do you remember the bombing in Saudi of the military dorm? If so there was more damage done to the OK city building than that dorm, and that dorm had a fuel truck go right next to it.

11xray: Have you seen Gen Par. video. When the Ryder truck went off there was a light pole there then a few seconds later its gone. HHHMMM...


And what got passed right after the that OK bombing, a anti terrorist bill.
 
McVeigh did it.

There may have been a third, but if so he'll eventually come to light.

The truck bomb as reported certainly can and did do the damage.

Conspiracy theorists love stuff like this. The bigger the potential for a conspiracy, the better.

Erik
 
Coin, McV admitted to no tactics. I don't think he has even admitted to speeding. I don't get warm and fuzzy when a criminal points out the obvious :).

Conspiracy theory makes me tired. As usual, most of the hard evidence is gone.

Verifiable personal experiences and opinions:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>"Broken glass" - 1. Dad's truck, parked not within in sight of the building, totalled. 2. Friends outside the metro lost a living room window and heard the blast(s).
<LI>Weak organic based bomb - the building was built by the lowest bidder. Do not we ever so often have an architectural wonder drop upon innocent victims upon its' own weight? Remember that hotel walkway years back and the chainsaws?
<LI>"F-Troop" gone. I know precisely where many of the folks were. They played a golf tournament that was annual and planned long in advance. I was one of those who informed them of the event and they left immediately. It was not just Feds, but a cross of state and local LE. Many present worked in the building.
<LI>I spent several hours with some local Fire and Rescue after they returned from the effort and listened to the first stages of "decompression". Incredible and amazing good people. They were around the clean up of debris also. No indication of "tampering".
<LI>Finally, I buried friends. I trust this government we are burdened with little. I do trust in the love and commitment of US. I will not look under the bed for monsters. Enough cockroaches scurry in the daylight for our attention.
</UL>
 
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