Thumbs up for Denver SWAT

thaddeus

New member
I must say that I am impressed that in the midst of all the chaos in the Littleton event, that the SRT/SWAT did a great job. Imagine going room to room for literally hours, not knowing who is the good or bad guy, having panicked kids jump out of crevaces, and not one slipped their finger onto the trigger and shot an innocent. What a stressful situation.
I am also amazed that they discovered the booby-traps in knapsacks and on victims and suspects without any of them hurting anyone. They must think of everything before they go in. I must admit, in a situation like that, I would not think to look for booby-traps, as that is just not ever seen in these kinds of shootings. Imagine under all that stress, wading through all those dead bodies, after going room to room for hours on end with your nerves wired, while still having to remember that there are a couple guys in there who will kill you if they see you first, but still having the presence of mind NOT to just kick aside that knapsack in your way, or check a body too quickly for a pulse, and set off a bomb. I am sure that their superb training taught them to do this, but I am still impressed at how well they handled this situation, without an apparent flaw, when so many things could have gone wrong.

thaddeus.
 
i've never been there, so i could be wrong, but I think it would depend on the situation. the kids go into the school, shooting and tossing pipe bombs. the kids also have friends that friends who they may to talked to prior.
kids have a good memory when it comes to random stuff, and remember stuff that find random. I'm not saying that the Denver Swat didn't do a good job, but maybe they were made aware that there maybe booby-traps. but that shouldn't overshadow the fact that they did an outstanding job
 
Thaddeus-
Well said. I, like others, am often quick to point out police abuses. If the work was, in fact, done by the locals (I heard the Feds were there also) this situation would demonstrate that local LE can handle the worst of situations without the need for Federal interference.

Regardless, whoever those guys were, it was a job well done. From the shuttling of escapees, to the detention of the three interlopers to the clearing operation, they were pros and deserve national recognition.
Rich
 
While the SWAT teams apparently performed a very difficult task as effectively as they could, this incident clearly illustrates that the overall notion of "public safety" that the general public adheres to is a sham.
This is not meant as a criticism of the police. It would be difficult to imagine a more demanding scenario. It seems that by the time they got there, got into position and launched their operation, the massacre was well under way, if not already over.
I've read conflicting reports, so I don't know if the maniacs who shot up this school ended the carnage because the police showed up, or because they had achieved whatever twisted goal they had, or simply because they ran out of ammo.
Considering the record of school and church shootings that have occurred in recent years I'm amazed that anyone still clings to the idea that there are certain places that are somehow inviolable and therefore "safe" from harm.
Try to suggest to someone that a teacher or some other member of the school staff, having a permit to possess a legal firearm on school grounds, could have possibly averted this tragedy and see what kind of look you get.
"Oh no, we don't need any more guns out there!"
"There are already too many guns floating around!"
"I don't want my child's school to turn into a war zone."

It's only a war zone if someone is shooting back. Otherwise it's simply a shooting gallery.
 
Good point. The illusion of safety and control.

Now I learn that there was an armed deputy who apparently exchanged shots with the mutants.
And there were three other security guards on campus.
I like the way one national reporter put it, even though I can't convey his classic tone of voice. He said "there were three other security guards on campus, but there was little they could do..." And he didn't finish the sentence but trailed off.

Why couldn't they do anything? Because they were unarmed!!!!

(Sarcastic tone ON):
We surely couldn't have armed security on a school campus...why that would just be awful to have guns around our kids! Just imagine what could happen!
We would rather have our kids as sitting ducks and let anyone come in and execute them with abandon, while everyone can do nothing but watch.
(Sarcastic tone OFF)


Too bad one of the teachers didn't have a horrible "assault rifle" in the trunk of his car. The Police did not get there until most of the damage was done. Someone on campus had to do something.
I tell you what, if I were a teacher, and I had had an AR15 in my trunk, those guys would not have killed many people with their bombs and guns by the time I got back and gunned them down, saving many lives.

Not to blame the Police, they can only get there as fast as they can, but we need to burst this illusion of safety in the Police. They can usually do nothing but arrive AFTER the incident, and collect the bodies.


thaddeus

[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited April 21, 1999).]
 
Do any of you remember how the vice-principal at the Paducah shooting was reviled?

The VP had a CCW and was carrying....he was the guy that disarmed the shooter and prevented further carnage...and he didn't even shoot the perp! This was a guy who should have been touted as a hero and the national media, HCI, et al reviled him as a callous bloodthirsty redneck who dared to taint the sanctity of our children and schools by being armed

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
The SWAT team leader today was asked why they didn't go in immediately. He replied, rightfully so, "We didn't know where the suspects were or who they were." They obviously didn't want to go in shooting everyone in sight who was running.

The teachers and staff DID know who they were and where they were. I had an assistant principle in my high school who was a retired Marine, if he had access to adequate arms and this had happened, I can quarantee that the carnage would have been far less. The ONLY defense must be on-site, well armed, well trained and prepared for this. Usually, just the knowledge that this is the policy is enough to deter these things. A single semi-auto in the hands of a deputy is not sufficient.
 
DC: Yeah, the same thing happened to the AP in Pearl, MS. During the shooting, he ran out to his pick-up, snagged his Officer's Model, and when the perp was driving away from the scene, stood his ground in the street and forced the little prick to pull over. Of course, as soon as he (the perp) was faced with potential deadly force, he began to cry, blubber and generally blow snot bubbles all over the road the AP forced him to lay face down on. Believe it or not, the anti-gun crowd tried to crucify the man for daring to point a pistol at the poor, mis-guided lad. Ayoob has a great article on this incident in the last issue of American Handgunner.

[This message has been edited by Mike Spight (edited April 21, 1999).]
 
Didn't quite know where to put these, but the general spirit of Thad's 'thumb's up' made me think it was a good opportunity to point out what truly exceptional people it takes to do the job right. The first came from a LEO of my acquaitence named Paul Smith in western VA, the other from a guy named Gary Slider who posts at Shooters (don't know the original authors). A little schmaltzy perhaps, so -
When God made Police Officers

When the Lord was creating police officers, he was into his sixth day of overtime when an angel appeared and said, "You're doing a lot of fiddling around on this one."

And the Lord said, "Have you read the specs on this order? A police officer has to be able to run five miles through alleys in the dark, scale walls, enter homes the health inspector wouldn't touch, and not wrinkle his uniform.

"He has to be able to sit in an undercover car all day on a stakeout, cover a homicide scene that night, canvass the neighborhood for witnesses, and testify in court the next day.

"He has to be in top physical condition at all times, running on black coffee and half-eaten meals. And he has to have six pairs of hands."

The angel shook her head slowly and said, "Six pairs of hands... no way."

"It's not the hands that are causing me problems," said the Lord, "it's the three pairs of eyes an officer has to have."

"That's on the standard model?" asked the angel.

The Lord nodded. One pair that sees through a bulge in a pocket before he asks, "May I see what's in there, sir?" (When he already knows and wishes he'd taken that accounting job.) "Another pair here in the side of his head for his partners' safety. And another pair of eyes here in front that can look reassuringly at a bleeding victim and say, 'You'll be all right ma'am, when he knows it isn't so."

"Lord," said the angel, touching his sleeve, "rest and work on this tomorrow."

"I can't," said the Lord, "I already have a model that can talk a 250 pound drunk into a patrol car without incident and feed a family of five on a civil service paycheck."

The angel circled the model of the police officer very slowly, "Can it think?" she asked.

"You bet," said the Lord. "It can tell you the elements of a hundred crimes; recite Miranda warnings in its sleep; detain, investigate, search, and arrest a gang member on the street in less time than it takes five learned judges to debate the legality of the stop... and still it keeps its sense of humor.

This officer also has phenomenal personal control. He can deal with crime scenes painted in hell, coax a confession from a child abuser, comfort a murder victim's family, and then read in the daily paper how law enforcement isn't sensitive to the rights of criminal suspects."

Finally, the angel bent over and ran her finger across the cheek of the police officer. "There's a leak," she pronounced. "I told you that you were trying to put too much into this model."

"That's not a leak," said the lord, "it's a tear."

"What's the tear for?" asked the angel.

"It's for bottled-up emotions, for fallen comrades, for commitment to that funny piece of cloth called the American flag, for justice."

"You're a genius," said the angel.

The Lord looked somber. "I didn't put it there," he said.


Cop on the Take
First he takes the oath. Now look at all he takes:
He takes it in stride when people call him pig.
He takes time to stop and talk to children.
He takes your verbal abuse while giving you a ticket you really deserved.
He takes on creeps you would be afraid to even look at.
He takes time away from his family to keep you safe.
He takes your injured child to the hospital.
He takes the graveyard shift without complaint because it's his turn.
He takes his life into his hands daily.
He takes you home when your car breaks down.
He takes time to explain why both your headlights have to work.
He takes the job no one else wants--telling you a loved one has died.
He takes criminals to jail. He takes in sights that would make you cry. Sometimes he cries too, but he takes it anyway because someone has to. If he is lucky, he takes retirement.
He takes memories to bed each night that you couldn't bear for even one day.
Sometimes, he takes a bullet.
And yes, occasionally he may take a free cup of coffee.
Then one day he pays for all he has taken, and God takes him.
Please remember that the "He" in all this represents all police officers, both men and women who have served and are serving our cities and their citizens we have all sworn to protect.

Blessed are the peace keepers!........M2
 
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