Thumb and left index finger placement

J

jproaster

New member
I'm still learning some basics.

I've been taught (as a rightie) to place left hand over my right with thumbs above and below each other on left side of my pistol.

Then another friend shows me that he places his left index finger in front of the trigger guard and his left thumb more in line with his right thumb.

My original friend, who is quite gun savvy, says "do not use the finger over the guard method; it may work well when you have plenty of time to aim, but will cause pull to the left if you hurry shots."

Your thoughts please.

john
 
Id experiment and try both, as well as anything else you can find, and see what you think works best for you. There is really no "right" way, except your right way.

Some methods do work better than others though.

These days, what they call the "thumbs forward" grip seems to be all the rage, and it does seem to work well, but thats not saying its "right".

If you Google "thumbs forward grip" and click on images, you'll get a lot of good examples.
 
Thumbs forward doesnt work at all for me, i do the trigger guard thing, thumbs crossed (support over dominant.) People will bash the trigger guard method, do what works for you, not them.
 
I wrap the trigger guard too, but go with whatever is most comfortable for you. I've seen a number of people with truly bizarre shooting styles that can shoot circles around me and my "by-the-book" technique, so there really is no right or wrong (so long as you remain within the boundaries of firearms safety, at least).
 
My favorite (right handed) is the left hand out there, . . . finger over the trigger guard, . . . pulling back with the left, . . . as I push forward with the right hand, . . .

It is very sturdy, . . . solid, . . . and for me, . . . gets good groups.

YMMV

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I've played around with thumbs forward but, lately, I've gone back to the same grip that I use for my revolvers -- support thumb (left in my case) locking down shooting thumb. It just seems to me that it makes sense to keep things simple and not change grips, if possible, depending on the type of gun being used. Support thumb locking shooting thumb has been the tried and true revolver grip for a long time. It provides stability and, more important, it keeps thumbs away from the barrel/cylinder gap. A thumbs forward grip with a revolver is asking for some serious damage if the lead thumb gets too close to that gap. As for semis, locking the shooting thumb does not seem to affect my accuracy or performance, so why not?
 
My answer to your opening post is "thumbs forward" has provided me the best control of semi-autos. I disagree with using the support index finger over the front of the trigger guard. I don't want anything to take chance of accidentally entering inside of it. Only my actual trigger finger when I'm good and ready. It's a matter of safety in my eyes. With that, gunsmiths are known to square the trigger guard and checker/stipple the front side for securing said finger.

As for semis, locking the shooting thumb does not seem to affect my accuracy or performance, so why not?
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I'm not very articulate in explaining the whys and therefores on this, but thumbs forward helps me secure a 360deg. wrap around the grip of the gun and manage recoil.
 
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Here's my grip..if you're using this particular grip with a semi-auto, the recoiling slide may be a problem with that upper thumb. For autos, I use the thumbs forward and have no problem switching back and forth depending on which type I'm using. I have no use for the pinkie on the front of the trigger guard...it's too hard to be consistent that way, FOR ME...you may have better luck. (And too, it looks a bit silly...My opinion...) Rod

PC030576.jpg
 
stevieboy said:
I've played around with thumbs forward but, lately, I've gone back to the same grip that I use for my revolvers -- support thumb (left in my case) locking down shooting thumb. It just seems to me that it makes sense to keep things simple and not change grips, if possible, depending on the type of gun being used.
Click to expand...

Same here. While I can see the reason the "thumbs-forward" grip works so well for many people, namely that it gives one's hands maximum contact area on the gun, I feel more comfortable with the common revolver-type grip that you describe since I don't need to rotate my support hand, I shoot just as well with it, and I feel that it is a stronger grip for me in case a bad guy manages to get his grubby hands on my gun. Both are valid suggestions to try out, and ultimately each individual should use whatever works best specifically for them (with practicality always in mind).

stevieboy said:
Support thumb locking shooting thumb has been the tried and true revolver grip for a long time. It provides stability and, more important, it keeps thumbs away from the barrel/cylinder gap.
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That's right, and on autos it keeps the thumbs away from the slide and slide lock, which while only rarely ever an issue, I consider preventative medicine.

AK103K said:
Held out sideways, with your hat on sideways and your drawers hangin down?
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And over your head, pointing down at the target or your own feet--don't forget that! ;)
 
Thumbs forward is not a technique that is simple to develop and employ; it takes much muscle memory practice, and if one is interested in employing it, I strongly suggest enrolling in a program that teaches it. There are too many sub-techniques that must be performed in the correct fashion before you become dialed in. I went through a 5 day intensive course of instruction for firearms instructors, and upon completion I was nothing less than amazed at what I could do with my P220. After mastering the technique, and watching video that showed the level of controlled accuracy under very rapid fire, I was completely converted, and have never looked back.
 
gearhound,
You've pretty much nailed my main concern. Unless one really can deploy this method accurately with speed, it may not be a good method for me.

As to your increased competency with the Sig, are you implying better accuracy? or more...?

john
 
In my experience, it isn't like it's rocket science and isn't difficult at all to incorporate. If you need a link for reference of a couple well known instructors explaining it, just PM me...
 
Thumbs forward is not a technique that is simple to develop and employ;
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I never found that to be the case. Like anything else, its is a little different at first, but you quickly adapt to it. Once you shoot with it a little while, I think you'll see the difference, speed wont be any problem at all, and you'll see control and accuracy improve.
 
"As to your increased competency with the Sig, are you implying better accuracy? or more...?"

Across the board, really. Increased accuracy during rapid fire, especially at typical gunfight ranges, accurately engaging multiple targets at gunfight speed. If employed properly, you literally can fire as rapidly as humanly possible and stay tightly on center of mass. Our instructors were meticulous, and made no bones about what we were training for.

To be done properly, the technique begins at the ground and runs all the way to the extended weapon. A lot of folks think thumbs forward technique pertains only to how the hands wrap the weapon, but couldn't be further from the truth. Proper stance, knees flexed, chin tucked, shoulders raised and tight, arms locked out almost to the point of hyper extension, off hand rolled over so that the thumb literally points at the target. Hand placement before the draw, as well as reholstering. MANY variables, but after it is learned properly, I personally have found nothing better in nearly 18 years of patrol work.

The most important aspect, as with most things, is muscle memory. Our instructors recommended 300 draw strokes daily (!). I'm down to a lazy 100 or so every work day.
 
The biggest issue with the thumbs forward grip and the SIG's is the placement of the right hand thumb. If you dont watch it, the slide will drop on an empty mag, on a regualr basis. And in some cases, lock back on a loaded mag as well.

To be done properly, the technique begins at the ground and runs all the way to the extended weapon. A lot of folks think thumbs forward technique pertains only to how the hands wrap the weapon, but couldn't be further from the truth. Proper stance, knees flexed, chin tucked, shoulders raised and tight, arms locked out almost to the point of hyper extension, off hand rolled over so that the thumb literally points at the target. Hand placement before the draw, as well as reholstering. MANY variables, but after it is learned properly, I personally have found nothing better in nearly 18 years of patrol work.
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I think like any of the other stances, there is nothing set in stone as in how things are done, even the grip. All of the above may be a "pure" stance while standing still and shooting, but the second you take of moving while shooting, or use the gun from a different position, a lot of that will change, and continue to change as you move.

Every stance has a base or pure form, but you will usually see many adapted variations of them all, and many times, incorporation of a couple at once.
 
Then another friend shows me that he places his left index finger in front of the trigger guard
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Interlimb Interaction (Referred to as "sympathetic squeeze" in some training circles) would be a concern with this technique. What this means in layman's terms is that what you do with one hand under stress, you will tend to do with the other. Placing the support-hand index finger over the trigger guard in this instance could result in movement of the firearm (i.e. press on the trigger... press on the frame).

Another potential problem that may arise with placing this finger over the front of the trigger guard is a sacrifice in grip strength. A common practice with a two handed grip is to utilize the support hand for the majority of the grip strength. When you then consider that the primary strength of your grip comes from the fulcrum between the thumb, the index finger and the traffic driving finger, stretching out the index finger into that position effects the overall grip strength in a negative way. This will result in a reduction of recoil control and inevitably a lack of accuracy at speed.

Just thoughts to consider
 
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Accuracy at speed is why i do the trigger guard hold, i was pulling shots when shooting fast until i tried this. Now ill only shoot with finger on front of trigger guard.
 
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