Throw gun or weak hand scenario?

L

LASur5r

Moderator
How many of us has talked to or practiced this scenario with our SO?

You've gone out to dinner with your SO and have had a pleasant evening, but the night went on into the later part of the night so when you walked out to your car in the parking lot there are only a few cars left in the lot.
As you near your car, you see 3 guys sitting on the trunk of another car blocking your path to your car. You try to get around them and two of them jump off their car and one guy immediately whips out a snubbie and points it at your head. The other guy makes rude noises about what he'd like to do with your SO.
BG-1 tells BG-2 to "off the guy" so they can have fun with your SO. You figured it was a simple robbery up to this point, but the minute you hear "off the guy." You see that BG-2 has his eyes off of you.....
You draw your CCW and you both fire at the same time.
BG-2 goes down and you feel a sharp pain in your gun hand. Bg-1 is moving towards BG-2 and his gun......
....do you switch to weak hand and try to nail BG-2? or do you try to toss your CCW to your SO? or do you choose to do something else? What?
Oh by the way, BG-3 is moving quickly towards you?
Now what?
 
you feel a sharp pain in your gun hand.
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you mean I limp-writed, and caught my thumb in the slide? I'd still use my strong hand, and get a bandage after the fight.

If you mean my hand got shot, and is extremely incapacitated, then I'd kick BG-2's revolver towards the SO, and weak-hand the nearest baddy.

BG-2 goes down ... try to nail BG-2?
Click to expand...

I hope you mis-typed that and aren't saying I should kill the guy I just shot, instead of dealing with the un-injured threats first.
 
Practice shooting with your weak hand. Practice it a lot.

Might be a good idea to carry a backup, too. That bullet to the hand might have just disabled your gun. Bummer.

- Chris
 
Transfer gun to weak hand and resume neautralising threats as they occur.

In my personal situation SO would have also drawn and and would like wise be engaging hostiles.

Regards,
HS/LD
 
You try to get around them and two of them jump off their car and one guy immediately whips out a snubbie and points it at your head.
Click to expand...

this would be the way I handled the situation:

There would be no time to immediatley reach for my CCW with a gun to my head. My first reaction would be a sudden, untelegraphed motion to firearm deflection and launch an attack at just the right moment (when he temporarily takes his eyes off me). Technique used would be of course based on body position of both me and the BG.

When he is stunned, proceed with weapon disarmnent through joint dislocation or "bone breaking".

Now that i have "stolen time", I can then proceed to draw my weapon.




Your CCW is always your primary weapon, but there is no replacement for good close quarter combat techniques. SOmetimes there just not enough time to draw, cock, aim, and shoot...
 
First, there is no such thing as a simple robbery when you are threatened with lethal force. The robbery is simply the context of the situation that brough the robbers and you together. At the time your life is put into danger, the robbery aspect is inconsequential and ancillary to the significant aspect of the threat on your life.

Okay, so you and the bad guy exchange shots, he goes down, and you feel pain in your gun hand. At this point, it would be premature to switch the gun to your off hand and probably stupid to try throwing it to your SO for the SO to use. It would be premature to change hands as the pain in your gun hand may not be associated with a debilitating injury. Sure, you may be in pain and bones may have been broken, but unless a lot are broken or a nerve has been struck and you don't have any feeling left in the hand or it won't move, only then should you consider changing hands.

Consider this. If you have been shot in your gun hand and you still retain the gun in that hand after being shot, then more than likely you will be able to continue using that hand. If there has been so much damage that the hand can't hold the gun or nerve damage that won't allow you to hold the gun, then the gun is going to be on the ground already. Of course, you may have lost the gun during the impact, but your hand may still be able to function. So, if you have not dropped your gun yet, then it would be prudent to try using the gun hand as long as possible.

Another factor to consider when changing hands is that the transition between hands means a delay before you can shoot again and also means the transfer process results in the gun being dropped. If your hand is hit, then more than likely there will be blood on the gun and the blood will render it slick. That means you will be handing over a slick gun to your off hand. It is this transfer and blood that may cause the transfer to fail.

So why would you toss your gun to your SO? Good question. More than likely, you should not. The situation said this was occurring at night which means limitied visibility. What makes you think your SO will be able to see the gun tossed to her in the low light environment? Even if the SO can see the gun, what makes you think the SO will be looking at you to know to track the gun tossed in the air? The SO will likely be looking to the threats, not you. Furthermore, you will be tossing away your power. Once you lose possession, what are you going to do to help yourself? How much time is going to be lost during this toss where you and you SO won't be able to shoot? How much additional time is lost while you SO scrambles on the ground to retrieve the gun? Still more, what makes you think you are going to be able to produce a properly measured and accurate toss with your damaged gun hand? If your hand is in good enough shape to toss the gun in a controlled manner, then more than likely you can still use it too shoot.

Quite likely, you will be better with your normal gun hand, even if injured, than with your off hand. Lots of folks get shot in the gun hand during gun battles and continue to use the hand and continue to use it effectively. Injuries to the gun hand are fairly common in gun fights as the person shooting at you will likely focus on the threat, your gun, and unintentionally end up aiming at the gun. Additionally, the gun is often held in front of the shooter and so an attempted COM shot may simply result in hitting the gun and/or gun hand in front of that COM position.

Any time you lose control of your weapon or have it in a position where you cannot be firing it (such as during the transition between hands or during the toss), then you are compromising whatever potential you had to fend off the bad guys.
 
You probably would not have time to get your own CCW before the BG would have your brains on the pavement. However, I would go for the disarm of the guy closest(with the gun to your head), using his weapon on him and emptying it on his friends, then "reload" by bringing your CCW into play if need be.
 
Switch hands or draw another gun and neutralize the most immediate threat, if possible. But which is the most immediate? The guy going for the gun or the one coming for you? My immediate reaction upon reading the post was the guy going for the gun, but then I reconsidered. If I'm using my gun in my clumsy left hand AND I'm hurt, I'm in no position to try and retain my firearm. I'd go for the guy coming for me and then, if successful, try for the other one.

I would NOT throw my gun to my wife. You guys who talk about the bad guys having to deal with your SO's gun are SO lucky (ha ha...I made a little joke unintentionally, didn't I?).



Uhh, Tamara, can you say that again? I got pictures of Beavis and Butthead running through my head saying, "She said 'cock'"...Ah, for the simple offensive cartoons of yesterday...sometimes South Park gets a little too much even for ME.
 
"Cock"...as in pull back the hammer on a pistol. Though that shouldn't be necessary with a DA pistol.

Or, perhaps, he means pull back the slide on an automatic to feed a round into the chamber. Not everyone carries with one in the chamber.

Unless the SO is competent to use it, it's pointless to toss the gun to her/him. Better to keep it yourself and use your weak hand. Weak hand by a strongly skilled shooter is likely to be more effective than strong hand by a weakly skilled shooter.
 
(My facetious hat is on):

Heck, everyone knows that, in the movies, racking the slide to chamber a round is correct procedure, so everyone will know that the star's/BG's weapon is now really loaded and ready to kill someone.;)
 
You wouldn't carry around a stick of dynamite with the detonator in it, would you?

And I don't recall anyone ever saying that not carrying a round in the chamber equals an unloaded gun. A lower state of readiness, yes, but not unloaded.
 
No doubt that no round in the chamber does not equal an unloaded gun. As for not everyone carrying their guns with a round in the chamber, it really is a lower state of readiness for most people, except maybe the few who extensively practice the Israeli technique of drawing and racking at the same time.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people would carry a semi-auto handgun without a round in the chamber if they had the opportunity to carry the gun with one in the chamber. The Israelis do it because they are ordered to.
 
In typical situations I do NOT carry my pistol with a round in the chamber, and i DO practice drawing and racking the slide at the same time.

If I feel im going into a slightly higher risk situation, I'll go ahead and rack the pistol before I put it into its holster, on the small of my back.

Typical, such as grocery store, out to a local resturant. Higher risk, such as going into the city, (Bangor, here in Maine), to the Mall, or any time when i plan to be out past 10, or alone at night.
 
Re:

I'm with most of you guys....with gun to head it's gonna be real tough to draw your ccw. But these guys being bullies and thugs will no doubt give you a break to get around that, especially if there is a lady present. Most of these guys are so hyped on themselves they will be short on attention and you will be able to react accordingly. In the event of a catostrophic injury to my strong hand, I would definitely grab up the available gun or switch to my weak side. Though I do not consider my left hand that weak. I have always practiced shooting from both hands from early on. It also helps that I am fairly ambedexterous. In a previous life I had something similar happen but with a knife and 3 thugs....I went ballistic when my SO was grabbed at and we all ended up in jail. With the three of them complaining through bloody faces and lips that I attacked them. Needless to say my SO and I were released and asked if we wanted to press charges...I just hope I never have to have this situation happen in this life....mack
 
...draw, cock, aim, and shoot...


Er, "cock"?

--
That's valid for a P7, Tamara. You should know that, being a P7 owner yourself. :p
 
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