Thoughts on "Unintended Consequences" part II

Gopher a 45

New member
Okay CS,

Please accept my apologies for characterizing you as a troll. Those show up here occasionally, post inflammatory material a few times, then disappear.

I stick by the clumsy part, though. In fact, I did understand your post, I just didn't think ya did it very well. JMHO.

Your point about Paladin Press is well taken. Last year, for example, PP stopped publishing many titles that dealt with things that go boom. Why? They're legal (for now) yet they stopped publishing them. Even though such titles are technically legal, I have no doubt that if someone was raided, much as the pizza shop owner in (Maryland?) was, any titles by say, Ragnar Benson, laying around would be used against that person at a trial to show what a danger he was, whether or not said guy had used that information illegally. So I guess that there's not much difference these days between illegal and what's technically legal, but will still get you in a world of doo-doo if you're caught with it.

Back to UC. I was more disturbed by the Billy Dell incident than the last part of the book b/c the deputy was crippled for life over something as minor property damage, which could have been addressed within the system, while violations of fundamental rights sometimes cannot.

I suppose the whole last part of the book is trying to raise the question of "at what point does working within the system fail?" Theoretically, the BOR is not subject to majority vote, so fans of the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment shouldn't HAVE to do anything (politically or otherwise), but I think history takes a dim view of people who sit on their butts when it comes to fundamental rights. Just like I have the right, in theory, to walk down into a dark alley singing and waving handfuls of $100 bills in the air without being bothered, but common sense tells me that isn't real smart.
 
Okay;

I stated in my earlier post I had some trouble with some of the authors takes on historical events. I researched, and I still do.

I really enjoyed the shooting history. Didn't even know what a Solothurn was, now I want one :)

That aside, the ONLY trouble I had with the PLOT of the book. (kinda the point eh?) was
Henry mistaking the raiding feds for Terrorists. I mean, come on. Here Henry Bowman and all of his cronies have been dogged by Ftroop throughout the whole book. Henry has friends that have been raided, has had face to face problems with them, and when the raid comes down, he thinks, "Oh No! It's Terrorists come to steal all the guns!"

The Henry Bowman is a smart guy, He stays up on current events, knows his way around. How many of his friends had been wrongfully raided by Ftroop, and how many times had ANYONE in the book been robbed by terrorists?

I thought that was a pretty major plot flaw.

That said, I did enjoy the book despite my problems with it. I have passed it around to others.

If you haven't read it, It's worth the time.

As far as it being dangerous, it's fiction, whats the problem?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That aside, the ONLY trouble I had with the PLOT of the book. (kinda the point eh?) was
Henry mistaking the raiding feds for Terrorists. I mean, come on. Here Henry Bowman and all of his cronies have been dogged by Ftroop throughout the whole book. Henry has friends that have been raided, has had face to face problems with them, and when the raid comes down, he thinks, "Oh No! It's Terrorists come to steal all the guns!"
[/quote]

I agree. A few other things that bothered me about that part of the book:

- The BATF arrives in the middle of the night. Why? If they expected everyone to be gone, why not just show up in the morning and work in the daylight?

- The BATF agents all ride in one van. Nope, I don't think so; for an operation like that, I'd expect (at minimum) two carloads of agents, a van for the camera and tactical gear, and a truck or two to haul away all the "evidence".

- The BATF agents raiding Henry Bowman's house show up in helicopters. Again, why? Choppers are expensive and they'd need a truck or two to haul away all the "evidence" anyway.

- Henry just happens to have a set of NVGs and a .22 rifle at his disposal.

And when the feds go after Orville Crocker, there's only the four BATF agents with one FBI agent tagging along. And they're expecting to find a guy armed with at least one machinegun!
 
Paging TFL member "Henry Bowman": If you are still following this thread, where in AK are you?
Regards from Fairbanks.
 
In regard to the plot hole. Let's go back and remember some of the "Home Invasion / No-Knock" threads from a while ago.

As a compulsively law-abiding citizen, I am going to assume anyone breaking down my door at 3am is a criminal. I saw Henry Bowman's situation as very similar to that example.

-z
 
Also, if a helicopter crashed into a quarry, oil would leak out, and cause one heck of a slick on the surface. This would probably tip off the agents as to the whereabouts of the missing 'copter.
Me still likes the buuk! Me wants UC II!!!

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Find out just what the people will submit to and you've found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows or with both.
The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.
Frederick Douglass, Aug 4 1857
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Gopher
"I stick by the clumsy part, though. In fact, I did understand your post, I just didn't think ya did it very well. JMHO."[/quote]

Point of fact I didn't do it. I plagiarized the opening narration of a little known musical composer who after testifying before Congress on Content Labling of albums/CD produced an album expressing his feelings of such.

The Central Scrutinizer narrates throughout Frank Zappa's "Joe's Garage". The foreword of which reads;

Desperate nerds in high offices all over the world have been know to enact the most disgusting pieces of legislation in order to win votes (or, in places where they don't get to vote, to control unwanted forms of mass behavior).

Environmental laws were not passed to protect our air and water... they were passed to get votes. Seasonal anti-smut campaings are not conducted to rid our communities of moral rot... they are conducted to give an aura of saintliness to the office-seekers who demand them. If a few key phrases are thrown into any speech (as the expert advisors explain to those various heads of state) votes will roll in, bucks will roll in, and, most importantly, power will be maintained by the groovy guy (or gal) who get the most media coverage for his sleaze. Naturally, his friends in various businesses will do okay too.

All governments prepetuate themselves through the daily commission of acts which a rational person might find to be stupid or dangerous (or both). Naturally, our governemnt is no expection... for instance, if the President (any one of them) went on TV and sat there with the flag in the background (or maybe a rustic scene on a little backdrop, plus the flag) and stared sincerely into the camera and told everybody that all energy problems and all inflationary problems had been traced to and could be solved by the abolition of MUSIC, chances are that most people would believe him and thing that the illegalization of this obnoxious form of noise pollution would be a small price to pay for the chance to buy gas like the good 'ol days. No Way? Never Happen?

Recordings are made out of oil, All those big rock shows go from town to town in fuel-gobbing 45-foot trucks... and when they get there, they use up enormous amounts of electrical energy with their lights, their amplifiers, their PA systems... their smoke machines. And all those synthesizers... look at all the plastic they got in 'em... and the guitar picks... you name it.

JOE'S GARAGE is a stupid story about how the government is going to try to do away with music (a prime cause of unwanted mass behavior). It's sort of like a really cheap kind of high school play... the way it might have been done 20 years ago.

If the plot of the story seems just a little bit preposterous, and if the idea of The Central Scrutinizer enforcing laws that haven't been passed yet makes you giggle, just be glad you don't live in one of the cheerful little countries where, at this very moment, music is either severely ristricted... or, as it is in Iran, totally illegal'

Frank Zappa, 1979


Now, if you listen to "Joe's Garage" and then substitute the music theme with a Firearms/Books/Internet/etc theme, then take a look around what is happening in this country, you will understand my post was not "that" clumsy... IMO of course. ;)

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CS

[This message has been edited by CS (edited May 13, 2000).]
 
I take exception, since the themes in the book have been played out in real life in 2 real cases:

1. a gun dealer and his family WERE raided by thieves. They were tortured and killed for their weapons stash.

2. Here in Maryland, they loaded 40 agents on 4 choppers for a predawn raid at 4 locations. The target - UNDERSIZED FISH!! Yes, all that money for fish violations

PaulB
NRA, GOA, LEAA, MDCL, C.A.N.
Fight 4 Your Rights Homepage

[This message has been edited by fight4yourrights (edited May 13, 2000).]
 
With regard to "conservative" in the original Unintended Consequences thread. Good thing that there were not too many people with his particular beliefs around in 1776. War is hell, and I hope that it never comes to this, but who can tell for sure?
 
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