Thompson Semi-Auto Tommy Gun

J

Judge Blackhawk

New member
Does anyone have any experience with a new Tommy gun in semi-auto?

If so what is the price, quality and reliablity?

thanks
Judge Blackahwk


Governments ability to control is directly related to its ability to disarm. Judge Blackhawk
 
Have had the Auto Ord M1 Thompson in semi-auto for years. Took it out, found it was dead on at 100 yards, and other than now and again have put it away with about eight 25-round mags.

Only problems I've ever heard of are with the ones that jerks have tried to convert.

I have standing offers for the thing if I ever change my mind and want to sell it.

It still *****ENGAGES***** people's attention like few black guns will. If you like Garands and M1A's, you'll like the Thompson. If you like AR15's you'd probably like the Uzi better.
 
The major problem is that it takes a man and two small boys to cock the gun. Since it can't use API to snub down recoil, and it is not a locked breech, it has to slow the bolt with spring weight.

Jim
 
hmmm... a Tommy would make an interesting replacement for my AR-15 Carbine.
I already use lots of .45 ACP ammo... Dont need to buy .223 too!
Any more information on these things?
I remember it being said of the Thompson:
"Ounce for Ounce, the Deadliest thing ever made by Man."
Nice ring to it... but I guess they never considered the 12 ounce can of Beer.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
 
I too would like more information on the Thompson, specifically the 1927 model. My son as been after me to get one (we like the Springfield M1A a great deal), but I don't know enough about this weapon in its semi-auto configuration. I understand that Auto Ordinance was bought out by Khar (sic?) last year, and I don't know much about them either. What is Khar's reputation for quality control? Service? I e-mailed Khar about the ammo requirements for this weapon and was told that they recommended hardball (a negative since I shoot primarily hard cast bullets in my .45s). Since, I think, the Thompson as made by Khar isn't a gas gun, I'm not sure why they would make this restriction on the ammo other than to discourage handloading. Any and all information about the current semi-auto configurations of this weapon would be appreciated.
 
Beware of imitation Thompson semiautos. There are several on the market and have been for many years. I can think of one that I looked at several years ago called the Commando 45, IIRC. One big heavy POS. Cheap castings, pot metal, terrible fit etc.
 
Hi, guys,

The Commando was just what fal308 says, a POS. I have not seen the guns made under the Kahr regime, but the early ones were generally OK, but there were some problems using drum mags, and some nice WWII drums were ruined by people hacking on them.

They have the problems mentioned above, and also longer barrels than one is used to on a "real" Thompson, but are fun. I suspect they recommend FMJ ammo because the guns weren't made for soft/hollow points and might not feed, so Kahr warns in advance and keeps down the complaints.

Hard cast lead bullets should work fine, though. They seem to work OK in the originals. Load to close to milspec.

Jim
 
Been thinking some more on this matter.
The idea of trading of one of my ARs for a Thompson is most appealing.
Actually - I am selling my Target mod AR already. Thats for one thing - Leaving me with my shorty... but if I opt outta that - Then a Tommy Gun would leave me with only one caliber of ammo to buy.
Is there a web page for Auto Ordinance?
I think I just might do this....
M-21 Anyone?



------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
 
You might want to have a look at http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ for the models being put out at present. Most of the ones I've seen locally (WA) have been running in the $700 range. Just haven't picked one up as of yet. :)

[This message has been edited by Serval (edited January 12, 2000).]
 
George,

I am an admirer of the (original) TSMG, but it isn't in the same ball game as the AR-15. No matter how you slice it, the .45 is a pistol cartridge, and not even a 16" barrel can make it anything else. The .223/5.56mm is low on the scale of varmint type rounds (can't compare with .22-250) but it is a lot hotter than a .45 and better for penetration.

Jim
 
from recguns.com

20. Thompson/Center Submachine Gun

by Mike Briski

The Thompson/Center submachine gun was the brainchild of John Thompson and Warren Center, two avid silhouette shooters and military firearm
designers.

The T/CSMG is a small drum-fed machinegun with interchangeable barrels available in calibers ranging from 0.17 Remington to 45-70 Government, as
well as 0.410 shotgun. Both pistol and carbine versions are available, as well as the "Carbine Conversion Kit" which allows the pistol to be converted into
a carbine.

Thompson and Center developed the gun in the 1920's as a military weapon, but it gained fame (or notoriety) because of its popularity with bootleggers.
The advantages of a gun which could fire .45 ACP ammunition during a raid on a speakeasy, and then be used as a .223 on varmints, made it a favorite in
the Chicago environs, where gangsters, federal agents and woodchucks were all abundant. Police forces and the "Feds" soon demanded that they be
similarly armed.

Gangsters used the .22 barrels for quiet basement practice and police forces, always short of funds, used then-economical .22 shorts to keep their training
budgets low. Everyone seemed to love the .45 Long Colt barrels, which also chambered and fired 0.410 shotgun shells. A fifty-round drum loaded with
alternating .45 hollowpoints and 0.410 00 buckshot loads was a popular self defense load, and was known as the "wall of lead".

Many collectors tried to own one of every available barrel, and several companies offered barrels which were not available from T/C. The 45-70
Government cartridge, which was almost extinct, recieved a new lease on life when barrels for the T/CSMG became available.

The T/CSMG spawned a host of wildcat loadings, as enthusiasts sought to optimize the performance of this strong and versatile gun. The 6mm TCU was
developed for the "St. Valentine's Day" silhouette competition, which featured teams of five spraying gangster silhouetes at various ranges.

The outbreak of WWII brought the first widespread military use of the T/CSMG. It proved far more popular with the troops than the comparably sized
M1 carbine, as a soldier with a Thompson could fire either .45 ACP or M1 Carbine ammunition in his beloved "Tommy Gun". Though the military
discouraged the practice, many rural fathers mailed their sons 30-30 barrels and boxes of Winchester softpoints, which made the Thompson into a handy
brush gun. A letter, written shortly after the Normandy invasion, says "Pa, thanks for the bullits (sic). I got three Germans and a nice four-pointer
yesterday. Say hi to Ma." Experiments with 8mm Mauser barrels, intended to allow the use of captured ammunition, were failures, as even the strong T/C
actions could not hold up under the high pressures they produced. 9mm Luger barrels were issued, however, and allowed scavenged German ammunition
to be put to good use.

The T/CSMG saw limited action in Korea and Viet Nam, though it was no longer a standard issue weapon, and is still popular with collectors today.
Semi- automatic versions, which are legal for civilian use, are still available, and there is a very active T/CSMG collectors asssociation.
 
A Tommy gun in .45-70?
I dont think so.
A Contenter in .45-70 - sure.
I think that writer had his guns confused - or this was a work of fiction.
You can swap barrels off a Contenter, but not a Tommy gun... At least not that easy.
And you still have the Tommy's action you have to deal with - Cant fit a .45-70 or a 30-30 in there.

If you could. Wow. That Rocks.
I am going to have to look harder at this, I think.
That Light weight model looks very nice.

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
 
Jim Keenan, what is API? Open bolt? I had the privilege to fire an original 1928 Thompson SMG, which as you know, fires from an open bolt, as most dedicated full autos do. Also, it had the Blish lock, which made it what was called retarded blow-back. The bolt must've weighed 3 lbs in that thing, so when pulling the trigger and that big chunka iron slamming shut prolly made a pretty good inertial lock, if nothing else. Not to mention the reciprocation of said chunka iron! Putt-putt-putt! What a gas! :D LOL

Figure the '27 fires by closed bolt?

------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
 
the other nifty gun in this vein is the 22lr American 180

there is supposed to be a semi on the market

180 cause it has a rotary top mount drum that holds 180 rounds!
 
Guys, if you read the *entire* Thompson SMG article at rec.guns, you'll see a disclaimer that the article is satirical.

The reference to the St Valentine's Day Silhouette Competition should have clued y'all in.

Sheesh. ;)

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson
 
Hi, BigGI,

Most true SMGs fire from an open bolt, one exception being the H&R Reising. That means that when the gun is cocked, the bolt is open and held back by the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the bolt moves forward, picks up a round from the magazine, feeds it into the chamber and fires it. The gas pressure blows the cartridge case out of the chamber (blowback), pushing back the bolt until it stops and the process starts over.

If the trigger is released or the gun is selective fire and set on "Semi", the bolt locks back and the trigger must be pulled again to fire.

The Reising, while it fires from a closed bolt, still is blowback.

Since blowback works only with low power cartridges (else the bolt opens while the pressure is high and the cartridge case bursts), any higher power guns must use a locked breech. An example is the M1 carbine, M14, M1, etc. Full auto firearms for powerful (rifle type) cartridges must be designed to make sure the breech is fully locked before the cartridge is fired.

Because of the laws regulating full auto weapons, BATF will not allow manufacture of open bolt guns, since they are so easily converted to full auto.

API is advanced primer ignition. The Thompson and other SMGs are set up with a firing pin that is either part of the breech face (TSMG M1A1, M3 and STEN) or is tripped to drive into the primer just as the bolt closes, like the 1928 and M1 TSMG's. When a gun works this way, the primer is fired very slightly ahead of the bolt closing, so that the blowback of the cartridge has to fight the last tiny bit of the bolt's forward momentum. This makes the bolt act like it is heavier than it is, and allows it to actually be made relatively light and use a fairly light spring.

The slide of a .45 1911 type pistol can be lighter than an SMG bolt, because it is a locked breech gun. When designers have tried to put .45 and 9mm into blowback pistols they have found that the result was either a heavy slide or a humongous recoil spring.

Sorry, missed this. The original 1927 fired from an open bolt, it just had the disconnector fixed for semi only. The new 1927 fires from a closed bolt for reasons noted above.

Jim



[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited January 13, 2000).]
 
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