This just in: Clinton Administration to File Class Action Suit against Gun Makers

D

deanf

New member
Watching the report now on NBC Nightly News. More later . . . .

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789
 
Here's more:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/343784.asp

NEW ORLEANS, Dec. 7 — Arguing that gun violence at public housing projects is costing taxpayers too much, the Clinton administration is preparing to file a class-action lawsuit against gun manufacturers, sources told NBC News on Tuesday.

ENCOURAGED BY SUCCESSFUL lawsuits against cigarette makers, cities, counties and private organizations have been trying to use a similar strategy against gun manufacturers. The federal involvement is a major escalation of what promises to be a bitter battle.
The White House believes that the mere threat of a federal lawsuit will put tremendous pressure on the industry to crack down on disreputable gun dealers and curtail illegal gun sales.
Sources told NBC News that the Department of Housing and Urban Development would file suit on behalf of all of the federal public housing projects around the country early next year.
‘CAN HELP SAVE LIVES’
Officials of the public housing authority in New Orleans, home of the troubled Saint Bernard public housing project, said they would join the federal suit.
“I think in the long run it’s a good thing and I welcome it and I applaud it,” New Orleans Mayor Mark Morial said. “I think the federal involvement is also a recognition that in these public housing neighborhoods, which are uniquely areas where the federal government is very involved, that gun safety can help save lives.”
The gun industry is already under siege. New Orleans is one of 28 cities that has already filed suit, seeking to recover the costs of gun violence.
But the federal lawsuit would raise the stakes dramatically.
White House aides admit their real aim in threatening a national, class-action lawsuit is to pressure gun manufacturers to settle the existing suits with the cities and agree to a code of conduct that would require the industry to:
Crack down on gun sales to disreputable dealers.
Computerize gun inventories for easier tracking.
Manufacture safer guns.
Stop advertising a particular kind of gun that’s popular with criminals, which is marketed as fingerprint proof.

THE COST TO TAXPAYERS
“Every year the residents of public housing see 10,000 gun crimes and the taxpayers shell out a billion dollars in security costs,” Bruce Reed, a White House domestic policy adviser, said. “That’s wrong. We think the gun industry has a responsibility to change the way it does business.”

But some Republicans accused the White House of trying to further politicize the issue of gun violence heading into next year’s elections.
“I don’t believe the American people are looking for a solution that would clog our courts with more lawsuit abuse,” said Rep. Henry Bonilla, R-Texas.
A gun industry spokesperson on Tuesday called the federal government’s threat counterproductive.
Meanwhile, some gun owners are firing back against the cities and counties that have sued the industry that provides them with their firearms.
On Nov. 30, the Second Amendment Foundation, announced it had filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Conference of Mayors and some individual mayors alleging that they had engaged in “conspiracy to violate civil and constitutional rights” and were attempting to create “an undue burden on lawful interstate commerce.”



[This message has been edited by deanf (edited December 07, 1999).]
 
Damn, deanf, you beat me to the punch. :)

I was going to title it, "Uphold and Defend the Constitution, Mr. President!" Oh well.

Regardless, this is absolutely and flat-out ILLEGAL. You know, like perjury, invasion of privacy, and all the other charming little personality quirks of Our Fearless Leader. The fedgov has no authority to regulate commerce or limit firearms.

Can we survive another year of His Billness?

Some other thoughts:
Crack down on gun sales to disreputable dealers.

Disreputable. Not unlicensed or anything like that, just "disreputable." Last I heard, having a bad rep wasn't a crime.

Computerize gun inventories for easier tracking.

Most dealers already database their guns. They just don't give the feds *access* to those databases, and for one very good reason: the feds can't be trusted.

Manufacture safer guns.

Safer than what? And for whom?

Stop advertising a particular kind of gun that’s popular with criminals, which is marketed as fingerprint proof.

OK, someone help me out here. WTF is this? I've NEVER seen any ads about "fingerprint-proof" guns, except in HCI's propaganda. Who exactly makes this thing, and how are they marketing it?
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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article II, Section 13, CO state constitution.



[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited December 07, 1999).]
 
You know, anything other than blued steel that won't begin to rust the moment you touch it with a sweaty finger. Bye bye stainless, nickel plate, Ti, etc, etc.
 
Coin...

RE:fingerproof gun

There was a shooting in the Bay area a few years ago. The gun used (sorry don't recall name) was cheap POS made by an outfit out of Florida as I recall. I don't believe this was used in its national marketing adverts, but in the Bay area there was an advert that implied that due to the slightly tacky and textured kraton grips it was good for secret ops, no prints, sterile and some such drivel. The prosecution jumped on that and hence....finger-proof guns

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
For me the keynote of the whole piece is the part where it says...

“I think the federal involvement is also a recognition that in these public housing neighborhoods, which are uniquely areas where the federal government is very involved, that gun safety can help save lives.”

Indeed, the whole reason these places are so screwed up in the first place is “...the federal involvement...in these public housing neighborhoods, which are uniquely areas where the federal government is very involved...”.

Kinda reminds you of little pieces of Washington D.C. spread all over the country, doesn't it?

Mikey
 
(blink)

Good Christ. I just bought a brand-spankin'-new Marlin 60FS this evening, and it's lying across my lap as I type this. It has a textured synthetic stock which looks to be impervious to fingerprints.

(hang on while I check that...)

Well, I just put my sweaty paws all over it, and can't see print one. Oh My God! I bought an Evil Criminal Gun! Nooooooo!

Oh $#!+ ! My Glock (a.k.a. the Magical Metal-Detector-Foiling Terrorist Gun) has the same texturing!

Well, guess I'm going to prison now. See y'all sometime next century.


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"The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property,
or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called into question.."
Article II, Section 13, CO state constitution.
 
Ya want to finger print proof a fire arm, wrap the grip with friction tape. Or keep it oiled.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
HUD's in on this class action suit. The major thrust of the suit focuses on decreasing violence in the public housing projects. Read: inner cities. Interesting that the majority of individuals living in those housing projects are of a dark hue. If I were black and learning about this class action suit, I'd be highly concerned. The suit implies that guns in black hands are a problem--quite a racist connotation to the suit, if you asked me. Why just the projects? Crime's high there, surely. Besides, with a high level of criminal infestation in the public housing arenas, it's stands to reason that the guns being used there aren't come by via legal means. By disarming the law abiding citizens who also live in public housing, the government, once again, would be punishing victims by enforcing a law that applies to the law abiding instead of offenders.
 
Excuse me, but where does it say the Executive Branch can file lawsuits?

The Tec 9 was originally marketed as having finger-print resistant grips. Whoop-te-doo. There isn't a firearm made, oiled, wrapped in friction tape, sprayed with shellac, yadda yadda yadda that I can't get a fingerprint off of. If you've touched it with your bare hands, a fingerprint can be lifted. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

How do you make a gun SAFER???? There's not a one made (that I know of) that doesn't have safeties running out the yin-yang.

"I'm from the Gov't and I'm here to help." Oh, yeah? Walk west until your hair floats, buddy.

LawDog
 
The Tec 9

Oh, that explains why I didn't notice it. That POS just kind of slides off my internal radar. "Intra-who?"

"I'm from the Gov't and I'm here to help." Oh, yeah? Walk west until your hair floats, buddy.

Lawdog, if there were more cops like you, this would be a much safer country... not just for the politicians, either.


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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
My folks always said that if you can't say something good, then don't say anything at all. My words on this administration and its antics...consider me a mute. (But who of us could not speak all day about the the illegal practices of that group)?
 
I read about this on yahoo. If I get it right Wild Bill is prompting HUD to sue gunmakers. Since Wild Bill and his gang can't change the law to ban guns they are after the gun makers. From what I read they do not anticipate a trial but would like to settle out of court. This would create a precedent for every state and city to bleed gunmakers dry. This did not work with the cigarette industry, they are still in business and doing well. I now have to pay over 3 bucks for pack of cigs though.

The result if they get away with it is higher gun prices like those that we saw after the assault on “assault weapons”. This will just take more guns out of the hands of responsible gun owners. Leaving thugs with weapons to terrorize us.

Dutch

For a good laugh at a stupid reporter reporting a serious story.

“But a Glock 9 mm caught his eye. The clerk let him handle it and cock the hammer back and forth.”

http://insidedenver.com/news/1208guns3.shtml
 
You just ruined my day. Thanks.

:(

THE COST TO TAXPAYERS
“Every year the residents of public housing see 10,000 gun crimes and the taxpayers shell out a billion dollars in security costs,” Bruce Reed, a White House domestic policy adviser, said. “That’s wrong. We think the gun industry has a responsibility to change the way it does business.”

Or could it be that we don't put criminals out of circulation long enough? Or that the police try to avoid showing up at these public housing projects? Would it lower the crime rate (or at least concentration of crime) if these housing projects were demolished? Maybe the problem isn't guns, but a high concentration of criminals in gov't subsidized housing. If I got mugged there (I park across the street from one every day) could I sue the gov't? After all, it is their property, and aren't property owners responsible for what happens on their property?

Basically, it ticks me off that the president of my country wants to use our tax money to sue us. After all, who will have to pay for both sides of this????


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Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.

I hope these evil men come to understand our peaceful ways soon - My trigger finger is blistering!
 
HCI used the TEC-9 advertising statement that the gun was fingerprint resistant as meaning it was a signalk to criminals that they could handle it with impunity and not leave evidence. The TEC-9 is "fingerprint resistant" just as all arms with a Perkerized finish are "fingerprint resistant". They meant that it wouldn't rust due to fingerprints but HCI, having never been in a gun shop and seen the guy behind the counter wipe down just-handled guns, took this to the logical lying, exagerating, obfuscating, smoke-and-mirrors, Liberal extreme.

Of course, if they ever had been in a gun shop and seen this normal procedure for the protection of the finish on unsold goods, they would instantly assume that the guy was wiping off the fingerprints to protect the identity of the "felon" who had just handled it.

[This message has been edited by jimpeel (edited December 08, 1999).]
 
So. The government sues corporations (tobaco, gun mfgrs, etc.) to recoup taxpayers' dollars spent on the ills created by their wares.

Great. Since we are the ones footing this bill, when can I expect my refund check?

Something about this part of the spin that people aren't getting. If the lawsuits are to recoup taxpayers' loses, the taxpayers should get their money back.

Am I missing something here?

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we gladly feast on those who would subdue us
 
I smell a big, fat, Clintonian rat. IMO Clinton or one of his HCI advisers decided to bring this suit as an end-run around the Congress, not caring a bit that it abuses the court system and usurps legislative power. Then he had his staff look for a way to rationalize and justify the suit, and some drone came up with the public housing idea.

This is the judiciary's big chance to restore balance to government by throwing out the suit and reprimanding the Clinton Administration for filing it. I hope the judiciary doesn't blow its opportunity to rise to the occasion.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited December 08, 1999).]
 
White House Joins Suit on Gun Companies


By ANNE GEARAN
.c The Associated Press


WASHINGTON (Dec. 8) - The Clinton administration hopes the threat of a new,
national lawsuit will persuade gun makers to negotiate with cities that
accuse them of negligently allowing guns to fall into the hands of criminals.


The White House is helping prepare a class-action suit against gun makers,
alleging that guns and how they are marketed have contributed to violence in
public housing projects, administration officials said Tuesday.


The lawsuit by some or all of the nation's 3,100 local housing authorities
would be patterned on suits filed against the industry by 29 cities and
counties, the officials said.


Those suits claim that gun manufacturers have sold defective products or
marketed them in ways that increase the likelihood that they will be used to
commit crimes.


``The administration intends to work aggressively to ... try to work to reach
a settlement with the industry,'' White House domestic policy adviser Bruce
Reed said. ``If settlement is not possible, then the public housing
authorities are prepared to go forward with their suit.''


A negotiated agreement would allow the administration and gun control
advocates to claim a victory at a time when Congress has rejected writing
into law new firearms restrictions sought by President Clinton.


Administration officials said the White House and the Department of Housing
and Urban Development were helping prepare the suit even though the actual
plaintiff would be independent local authorities that run federal housing
programs.


The White House and HUD want gun makers to agree to a code of conduct that
includes cracking down on disreputable gun dealers and making safer guns. The
administration also wants gun makers to agree to end practices such as
marketing guns that are impervious to fingerprints.


``The legal theory is the same as the cities have been pursuing - the bottom
line is the gun manufacturers have not been properly supervising their
distribution channels,'' and otherwise failing to promote safety, a HUD
official said.


``It's the traditional liability theory that is applied to every other
product - negligence and product liability,'' the official said, speaking on
condition of anonymity.


The official would not detail any previous outreach to gun makers but said
new talks were planned.


The gun makers have acknowledged the talks, but objected to the
characterization of the meetings as ``negotiations.''


The New York attorney general is already holding discussions with gun makers
aimed at curbing the sale and distribution of handguns.


The White House informed New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer that Clinton
will announce, possibly as early as today, that he wants to enter the New
York talks, Spitzer spokesman Darren Dopp said Tuesday night.


Among the companies reportedly involved in the discussions with Spitzer have
been Smith and Wesson, Sturm, Ruger and Co., Colt's Manufacturing, O.F.
Mossberg and sons, Taurus, Glock and Beretta.


Messages left at Colt's offices in East Harford, Conn., were not immediately
returned Tuesday night.


New York officials have threatened to sue the manufacturers unless they agree
to a similar code of conduct governing the sale and distribution of their
products.


Some gun makers have declared bankruptcy in the wake of the suits by local
governments, and others have scaled back their product lines and decreased
advertising, according to a countersuit.


The suits have had mixed success in the courts. A judge dismissed
Cincinnati's suit in October, but another judge allowed Atlanta's suit to
proceed and ordered the industry to open its files.


Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment
Foundation, said if the housing authorities sue, his group likely would file
another countersuit on behalf of gun makers.


Gottlieb claimed that the administration was encouraging suits against the
gun industry in hopes of bankrupting gun companies.


The idea, he said, was ``file as many suits as possible. The industry can't
fight hundreds of lawsuits - it would bankrupt them.''


Associated Press Writer Michael J. Sniffen contributed to this report.


AP-NY-12-08-99 0152EDT

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
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