This is an OUTRAGE!

progunner1957

Moderator
"American" corporations and CEOs never cease to amaze me with their willingness to wallow in the gutter in order to turn a profit. Ever wonder why so many foreign people despise us? We use them for slave labor; we exploit them in ways American workers will not tolerate.

David Cook, the co-founder of SeaCode made this clear when he told Forbes magaine, "Try to get American software engineers to work at night." I'll bet he doesn't work at night!

American workers want to sleep at night, as nature intended; they want to have time to spend with their loved ones. Apparently to the likes of the scumbags that came up with this scam, we are insolent and lazy because we dare to put anything above making them more millions than they already have.

I doubt that "The Government" will say no to this outrage - after all, cheap international labor to fuel corporate gluttony is a good thing. The only glimmer of hope is that SeaCode will be shafting Socialist Security out of its pound of flesh, but that's what American workers are here for - to keep Socialist Security afloat to fund benefits for the 8200+ illegal aliens that cross our southern border every day, 365 days a year.

Most of the sheeple won't care; as I always say, the American people have been getting sodomized for so long that most of them don't even feel it anymore.

Foreign Workers Coming to a Cruise Ship near You
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, April 29, 2005
"Outsourcing" – which has become synonymous with sending American jobs to India or China – could soon mean foreign workers sleeping in ships just a few miles off America's coasts.

In an outrageous affront to U.S. labor laws, a California company plans to anchor a 600-cabin cruise ship just beyond the three-mile limit off the coast of El Segundo, near Los Angeles, and stock it with foreign software programmers.

The company, SeaCode, will seek to classify the workers as "seamen," avoiding U.S. payroll taxes and the need for immigration visas.
Programmers from places like India and Russia would work 8-hour or 10-hour shifts, either day or night. Take-home pay: About $21,500 a year.

Compare that to the salary of an American programmer – median salary for programmers is around $60,000, and those with extensive experience can make $125,000 or more (3X to 10X the annual wages of foreign programmers, with SeaCode pocketing the savings). - and U.S. companies like SeaCode could reap a windfall.

SeaCode says it will charge clients the SAME RATE as firms in developing countries. The company says the significant benefit of having the low-cost programmers near the U.S. is that clients will be spared from long flights to India and other far-off destinations to check on projects.

By using foreigners working on boats, SeaCode also believes projects will get done more quickly as their programmers toil both day and night. "Try to get American software engineers to work at night," SeaCode co-founder David Cook told Forbes magazine, explaining his delight in the outsourcing scheme.

But Jack Martin, special projects director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, complained: "All it would do is be a further contribution to eroding the job opportunities for skilled American workers."

SeaCode is close to making an offer for the Carousel, a ship now sailing around the Canary Islands. The vessel would dock in Long Beach once a month to take on supplies and dispose of waste – isn't that nice? But legally speaking, the SeaCode scheme could face stormy seas.

"It's not my prerogative to tell them to take a hike," said El Segundo Mayor Kelly McDowell. "I'll leave that to the Coast Guard."

Are you angry yet??
 
the only recourse we have here is to not purchase software developed by SeaCode.

Unfortunately the software will probably be used in cable and satellite television recievers.

i don't see anyone rushing to give up television ...
 
The Russian navy mothballed a lot of its submarine fleet after the USSR collapsed. If all of us here at TFL got together and chipped in, they would probably sell us one (covertly). We should have enough navy guys here to crew it. If the Russians won't sell, the French might, but only if we told them we were serving the interests of a rogue dictator or a terrorist group. :D :D :D
 
$21,500 is "slave labor"?

Hell, I bet that would make them richer in one year, than if they worked all their life in their home country.
 
You're right, K-dawg; $21,500 is alot of money in some nations.

That having been said, SeaCode is taking away high-tech jobs from American workers; it is engaging in back-door price gouging by selling its product at prices that do not reflect the lower production/labor cost; it is circumventing U.S. labor laws by stationing its "cruise ship" outside the 3 mile U.S. territorial waters limit, and manipulating the status of its workers by classifying them as "seamen," which they are not.

In my humble opinion, these actions are the actions of greedy, morally bankrupt men who have no integrity and will throw Americans out of work to further build their own personal fortunes. I'm not an attorney, but these actions also appear to be unlawful; SeaCode is attempting to circumvent paying employment taxes on its employees, again in order to further enrich the company Poo-bahs.

It seems to me that any way you cut it, this is simply wrong.
 
Spotted Owl - Thank you for the link. I noticed quite a different tone in that article.

progunner1957 said:
"American" corporations and CEOs never cease to amaze me with their willingness to wallow in the gutter in order to turn a profit.
Hyperbole.


Ever wonder why so many foreign people despise us? We use them for slave labor; we exploit them in ways American workers will not tolerate.
Slave n. "One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household." Do you have an example of an American corporation forcing people into labor? Foreign individuals who work for American corporations do so of their own free will, no?


David Cook, the co-founder of SeaCode made this clear when he told Forbes magaine, "Try to get American software engineers to work at night." I'll bet he doesn't work at night!
What difference does it make when he works? He owns the company, he can work when he wants to work.


American workers want to sleep at night, as nature intended; they want to have time to spend with their loved ones.
Gross generalization.


Apparently to the likes of the scumbags that came up with this scam, we are insolent and lazy because we dare to put anything above making them more millions than they already have.
More hyperbole.


I doubt that "The Government" will say no to this outrage - after all, cheap international labor to fuel corporate gluttony is a good thing.
Please explain why you think "The Government" has the power to "say no" to these entrepreneurs who are operating within the law?


The only glimmer of hope is that SeaCode will be shafting Socialist Security out of its pound of flesh, but that's what American workers are here for - to keep Socialist Security afloat to fund benefits for the 8200+ illegal aliens that cross our southern border every day, 365 days a year.
My goodness... That's a good thing?


Most of the sheeple won't care; as I always say, the American people have been getting sodomized for so long that most of them don't even feel it anymore.
I am confident enough in my intelligence and skills that I don't worry about losing my job to a foreign source; so I guess I don't care.


That having been said, SeaCode is taking away high-tech jobs from American workers;
Where is it written that these jobs belong exclusively to Americans?


it is engaging in back-door price gouging by selling its product at prices that do not reflect the lower production/labor cost;
It is engaging in reducing its labor costs just like every other company does. So-called "back-door price gouging" is nothing more than maximizing profits; again something that every other company does to the limit that the market will bear.


it is circumventing U.S. labor laws by stationing its "cruise ship" outside the 3 mile U.S. territorial waters limit,
If what they are doing is illegal, they will face charges. If it is currently a "grey area" it will likely be defined better by the courts or the legislature.


and manipulating the status of its workers by classifying them as "seamen," which they are not.
Again, it will be for the courts or the legislature to decide whether they are or aren't.


In my humble opinion, these actions are the actions of greedy, morally bankrupt men who have no integrity and will throw Americans out of work to further build their own personal fortunes. I'm not an attorney, but these actions also appear to be unlawful; SeaCode is attempting to circumvent paying employment taxes on its employees, again in order to further enrich the company Poo-bahs.
You may be 100 percent correct! They may be greedy, morally bankrupt and have no integrity. They might be the types that would fire their own mother for taking too long a coffee break. They are undoubtedly money-grubbing capitalists!!! :eek:

Do you think that the government should stop them because they are bad people?


It seems to me that any way you cut it, this is simply wrong.
Wrong is one thing. Illegal is another. Personally, I'd like to see them try it.
 
I bet they don't allow guns. Is there a group like amnesty international that keeps track of international RKBA abuses? Maybe we can start one and issue a press release?
 
Your outrage is noted. . . . .and misdirected. Ask yourself a simple question. "Why does it take $60,000 to get a code slinger to work?" Market pricing perhaps. How 'bout cost of living? Maybe, just maybe, the 40-50% the federales, states, and local goons take out of a salary just might have something to do with the high cost of labor. Maybe, just maybe government mandated bennies such as social security, healthcare, workman comp, OSHA, EPA, ad nauseun, ad nauseum, ad nauseum has something to do with it. Maybe product liability laws and assault lawyer threats have something to do with it.

Ask yourself one simpleminded question when you see a story like the Code Boat or a company moving production overseas. "What is the owner avoiding by sending production overseas?" The answer will at some point center around the cost of the freakin' government is too high to compete in a world with labor in developing countries.

Go ahead and be outraged at the greedy capitalist who only wants a return on his investment. But reserve some outrage for the dead hand of government tightly squeezing your throat.
 
"American" corporations and CEOs never cease to amaze me with their willingness to wallow in the gutter in order to turn a profit.

As a shareholder in corporate America, I would just like to say "Please keep wallowing!!"
 
One phrase somes to mind, You get what you pay for.

I am aware of several online PC part wholesalers who put their call center in India. Many people (myself included) gave up trying to order anything by phone because none of the reps could speak 5-year old level english. The website was probably writen using a speak-and-spell as well. Sure the stuff they sold was nice and cheap, but customers like me went and spent the extra $10 on a place where you could actualy order what you needed without a translator/bottle of asprin.

/BTW if that ship WAS attacked, who would come to the rescue. :confused:
 
/BTW if that ship WAS attacked, who would come to the rescue
Got me thinking, wonder if any taxpayer funded government subsidies are being used to fund this ship of coders? Low interest government business loan, maybe? Government business grant, perhaps?

If so, sounds like a case of biting the hand that feeds.

Waitone, good one, couldn't agree more.
 
No doubt the ships won't be made here, and they won't be registered here either.

What information and other human services can not be run cheaper offshore or in a third world country? Anything?
 
Okay, maybe "OUTRAGE" was over the top - how about calling it a mild case of the red-ass?

I'm not a "save us from the rich oppressors, oh all wise and knowing government bureaucrats" type by any means. But this still looks like (IMHO) the American worker getting bent over by big business.

Where do we draw the line? Or do we? If you take this type of business practice to its logical conclusion, we will ALL be unemployed.

Then what?
 
Waitone's post needs to be guilded in gold,,framed,,and hung on everyone's wall. I commend him on his insight. The crux of the *problem* isn't some *greedy* corporate entity, it's the stranglehold the US Government - agencies, bureau and organizations,, have on American business and industry.
 
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progunner1957, the only thing I can see about this that would make me mad is the fact that I didn't have the money and come up with the idea myself. The guy is working totally within the law. If you don't like the law, then you need to contact your representatives in Congress.

I am sorry you don't have a better understanding of capitalism and American law.

In my humble opinion, these actions are the actions of greedy, morally bankrupt men who have no integrity and will throw Americans out of work to further build their own personal fortunes. I'm not an attorney, but these actions also appear to be unlawful; SeaCode is attempting to circumvent paying employment taxes on its employees, again in order to further enrich the company Poo-bahs.

Oh wait, maybe you do understand capitalism, but you still don't understand the law.

As for the title about foreign workers on cruise ships, if you have ever taken a cruise on a big cruise ship, a tremendous number of the workers are foreign. In fact, such matters have been the basis of investigation for confusion surrounding damaged or sinking cruise ships. Under stress, many of the English as second language workers reverted to native tongues that Americans did not understand, hence complicating emergency directives.

I really like your classification of CEOs as lazy. That is just wonderful. Finding a better way to do things (so that we don't work as hard) is a big part of American business and attitudes. Heck, you probably use modern technology like computers and cars. Jeez you are a lazy person. You should be writing on a slate board with natural chalk and walking, but you don't do that, do you?
 
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