Ammo is still fairly cheap for this lever gun but wondering how much harder to load than 308 and 260 or 7 mag. I would most likely use Lee dies for separate crimp. Checking Midway the bullets are pretty pricey. I know I could buy some Wally World core locs and have some brass. Already have powders. Would just need dies and trimmer. It sits more than it shoots but is old faithful on scabbard of my husbands horse.
Thinking of reloading 30-30
- Thread starter Wendyj
- Start date
jwrowland77
New member
Well, I load 2 of the 3 you listed, as well as the 30-30. I have found that the 30-30 is pretty easy to reload, just like the .308 and 7mm Rem Mag, except for the fact that you crimp the .30-30.
I'm using Leverevolution along with a 170gr Nosler Partition RN. Shoots great. My furthest shot is normally 75yd and in.
I'm using Leverevolution along with a 170gr Nosler Partition RN. Shoots great. My furthest shot is normally 75yd and in.
While the 30-30 is easy to load, if you are using a lever action, at least if you are loading for my lever action, there are significant limitations. My Marlin 336 is a microgroove, I did not slug the barrel.
I shot 170 grain Sierra Round nose over the chronograph to check on velocity. This is not the only group I shot with this load, all groups showed a pattern of vertical stringing. I have tested a lot of powders in this rifle and to date, the best 100 yard group with 170 Hornady FPFB is a five shot group 2.25" in diameter at 100 yards. A grain above or below and the groups are huge, six inches or more is not uncommon. Small changes in velocity result in big changes in point of impact. I found that the chamber headspace is huge , if measured from the shoulder. New cases fall correctly into my Wilson case gage but fired cases are 0.017" above "No Go". To prevent case stretch, which with this much headspace, would most certainly result in case head separations, I am lubing my new cases. This keeps the case sidewalls from adhering to the chamber, and that slides the case to the bolt face. I have adjusted my sizing die so that the shoulder is pushed back about 0.003" after the first firing. The throat is way up the barrel. I tried seating a 170 Hornady long, I was able to feed the round into the magazine and the chamber, but I was unable to extract the round. A loaded round has to be less than the distance from the front of the loading port to the ejector, which is just about 2.550". To extract this round I had to remove the loading lever and pull the bolt out. Unfortunately the throat is so far up the barrel that even with a overly long round, I never touched the rifling.
So for my rifle, the chamber is huge, the throat and the rifling way out there. Because of the huge chamber my loads were about two grains over what a reloading manual gave as maximum loads for the same velocity. I recommend whatever rifle you use, test over a chronograph.
I commented about my problems, frustrations with the accuracy of the thing over lunch with some long range friends; they had been testing equipment that day, their groups at 100 yards were all nickel sized or less, and the basic comment from them was "these rifles are not target rifles " Actually, the precise statements were far more derogatory.
There are 30-30 bolt action rifles, I don't want one as the round is so low velocity, that I don't see the point. For someone who had to have a historic rimmed round in a bolt rifle, the 30-40 Krag would be a better round as you can shoot 220 grain bullets, and is one of the better cartridges for cast bullets. I am of the opinion the 303 Brit would beat the 30-40 Krag with jacketed, but finding a bolt gun in any of these rounds would take some work.
Don’t expect target grade accuracy with a lever action. I conducted a bunch of testing and the best ten shot group was 2.0” and that was exceptional for my rifle. The second best load produced 2.5” group, and I consider groups in the 3 inch range entirely acceptable for a lever action, sometimes factory ammunition gave better groups but I was not shooting ten round groups with factory. Anyone who claims MOA in a lever action will need to produce a 20 shot group before I take their claim seriously.
My rifle shot best with loads that produced the tightest extreme spreads. Also, this rifle shot best at factory velocity loads for the 150 and 170 grain bullets. The second condition is a real limitation for a lever action.
I shot 170 grain Sierra Round nose over the chronograph to check on velocity. This is not the only group I shot with this load, all groups showed a pattern of vertical stringing. I have tested a lot of powders in this rifle and to date, the best 100 yard group with 170 Hornady FPFB is a five shot group 2.25" in diameter at 100 yards. A grain above or below and the groups are huge, six inches or more is not uncommon. Small changes in velocity result in big changes in point of impact. I found that the chamber headspace is huge , if measured from the shoulder. New cases fall correctly into my Wilson case gage but fired cases are 0.017" above "No Go". To prevent case stretch, which with this much headspace, would most certainly result in case head separations, I am lubing my new cases. This keeps the case sidewalls from adhering to the chamber, and that slides the case to the bolt face. I have adjusted my sizing die so that the shoulder is pushed back about 0.003" after the first firing. The throat is way up the barrel. I tried seating a 170 Hornady long, I was able to feed the round into the magazine and the chamber, but I was unable to extract the round. A loaded round has to be less than the distance from the front of the loading port to the ejector, which is just about 2.550". To extract this round I had to remove the loading lever and pull the bolt out. Unfortunately the throat is so far up the barrel that even with a overly long round, I never touched the rifling.
So for my rifle, the chamber is huge, the throat and the rifling way out there. Because of the huge chamber my loads were about two grains over what a reloading manual gave as maximum loads for the same velocity. I recommend whatever rifle you use, test over a chronograph.
I commented about my problems, frustrations with the accuracy of the thing over lunch with some long range friends; they had been testing equipment that day, their groups at 100 yards were all nickel sized or less, and the basic comment from them was "these rifles are not target rifles " Actually, the precise statements were far more derogatory.
There are 30-30 bolt action rifles, I don't want one as the round is so low velocity, that I don't see the point. For someone who had to have a historic rimmed round in a bolt rifle, the 30-40 Krag would be a better round as you can shoot 220 grain bullets, and is one of the better cartridges for cast bullets. I am of the opinion the 303 Brit would beat the 30-40 Krag with jacketed, but finding a bolt gun in any of these rounds would take some work.
Don’t expect target grade accuracy with a lever action. I conducted a bunch of testing and the best ten shot group was 2.0” and that was exceptional for my rifle. The second best load produced 2.5” group, and I consider groups in the 3 inch range entirely acceptable for a lever action, sometimes factory ammunition gave better groups but I was not shooting ten round groups with factory. Anyone who claims MOA in a lever action will need to produce a 20 shot group before I take their claim seriously.
My rifle shot best with loads that produced the tightest extreme spreads. Also, this rifle shot best at factory velocity loads for the 150 and 170 grain bullets. The second condition is a real limitation for a lever action.
I like those marlin's they shoot well in my experience. I have a pre WWII 94 and it is sloppy. Its doing well to hit a pie plate at 100 Yds.
A simple 170Gr. Core Lock has worked for me.
I think you would be making a good choice with the Hornady FPFB. 2 1/2 inch at 100 Yds. impressed me.
A simple 170Gr. Core Lock has worked for me.
I think you would be making a good choice with the Hornady FPFB. 2 1/2 inch at 100 Yds. impressed me.
Hammerhead
New member
For practice ammo try a coated bullet.
http://www.snscasting.com/30-30-158-grain-round-nose-flat-point-coated-500ct/
http://www.snscasting.com/30-30-158-grain-round-nose-flat-point-coated-500ct/
jason.copas
Inactive
I load a 150gr cast lead (saeco #316) over 7.0gr unique for plinking, only moving about 1200fps though. that was the first load I tried and it groups about an inch and a half at 50 yards. That's good enough for me. I haven't messed with full power stuff yet.
condor bravo
New member
Certainly, if you want to branch out some with a lever action caliber, give the .30-30 a go. It is an easy enough cartridge to reload; I just use 170 gr lead bullets with a crimping groove. I load over a dozen lever action calibers compared to over 40 bolt gun calibers and like me you probably will not find it quite as fullfilling loading for the lever actions as for the bolt gun calibers. But it all helps to keep the loading game going strong.
Wendy. I just set up my seizing die to headspace the cartridge on the shoulder, just as you would the .308 or any other rimless cartridge. You just tinker with enough that it chambers easily.
Slamfire. Just to make it simple, Marlin Microgroove barrels are hard to get a decent measurement slugging the barrel. I don't shoot factory ammo in my Marlin or Winchesters. I shoot my home cast bullets sized to .310" and that size works just fine in both makes of rifles. They kill deer very nicely as well. My preferred bullet is the Lyman #311291, a round nose bullet that casts out between 170 to 180 gr. depending on the alloy. Another bullet I've done some work with is the RCBE #30-180-FN which casts out at 190 gr. in my alloy.
I think if the right bolt action 30-30 came along you might think otherwise. I have a Winchester M54 in 30-30 and that cartridge/rifle combo is mighty accurate. I've won more than one burrito match with that rifle.
I only have one Marlin, a 336 with straight stock like an M94 that when I do my part will come close to MOA. However, as one has said they're not target rifles. The best way I've found to get tight groups is single load the rifle. If you shoot with a full magazine, as shells are expended it changes the point of impact.
I consider the 30-30 just a fun gun these days as I only hunt elk and ranges are a bit beyond the 30-30's capability.
Paul B.
Slamfire. Just to make it simple, Marlin Microgroove barrels are hard to get a decent measurement slugging the barrel. I don't shoot factory ammo in my Marlin or Winchesters. I shoot my home cast bullets sized to .310" and that size works just fine in both makes of rifles. They kill deer very nicely as well. My preferred bullet is the Lyman #311291, a round nose bullet that casts out between 170 to 180 gr. depending on the alloy. Another bullet I've done some work with is the RCBE #30-180-FN which casts out at 190 gr. in my alloy.
I think if the right bolt action 30-30 came along you might think otherwise. I have a Winchester M54 in 30-30 and that cartridge/rifle combo is mighty accurate. I've won more than one burrito match with that rifle.
I only have one Marlin, a 336 with straight stock like an M94 that when I do my part will come close to MOA. However, as one has said they're not target rifles. The best way I've found to get tight groups is single load the rifle. If you shoot with a full magazine, as shells are expended it changes the point of impact.
I consider the 30-30 just a fun gun these days as I only hunt elk and ranges are a bit beyond the 30-30's capability.
Paul B.
Like the others have mentioned this particular combo isn't going to deliver many stellar groups like you might get from your other rifles and loads. That said though, you should be able to at least get within the factory load group area with a little trial and error testing.
I had a friend who shot an old Marlin that we got into the 1.5" range using H-4895 and the Rem 170gr CL bullets. It might not be something you might want for a real long shot but he put plenty of deer in the freezer with them. They were a real good substitute for the factory loads.
Similar to me loading for my little Ruger in .308. It only has a 16.5" barrel and has never shot much better than 1.5" at 100yds, but it does it with factory Rem CL's, and it now does a little better using my loads with the same H4895 and 150gr CL's. It has been dropping critters since I got it and hopefully will continue to do so long into the future. Until the factory stuff went through the roof, I never even bothered loading for it. Now however I wouldn't even consider NOT loading for it.
Go forth and have fun with it, just consider the pointed issues mentioned above and check your cases. Simple adjustments of your dies can help work through some of the large chamber issues, and once you find a decent comparable load to the factory, you will always have a supply of ammo.
I had a friend who shot an old Marlin that we got into the 1.5" range using H-4895 and the Rem 170gr CL bullets. It might not be something you might want for a real long shot but he put plenty of deer in the freezer with them. They were a real good substitute for the factory loads.
Similar to me loading for my little Ruger in .308. It only has a 16.5" barrel and has never shot much better than 1.5" at 100yds, but it does it with factory Rem CL's, and it now does a little better using my loads with the same H4895 and 150gr CL's. It has been dropping critters since I got it and hopefully will continue to do so long into the future. Until the factory stuff went through the roof, I never even bothered loading for it. Now however I wouldn't even consider NOT loading for it.
Go forth and have fun with it, just consider the pointed issues mentioned above and check your cases. Simple adjustments of your dies can help work through some of the large chamber issues, and once you find a decent comparable load to the factory, you will always have a supply of ammo.
Wnedyj, I would not suggest you grease your cases. My opinion, it is a bad habit. I understand there are slide and glide shooters, to prevent the case from locking onto the chamber they grease the case to prevent the case from locking onto the chamber.
I have a Model 94 and a 336 Marlin. There are a few reloaders that had the ability to measure case length from the shoulder to the case head before and after firing. One of them sent his 336 Marlin back, the rifle he received was in the same shape.
Most reloaders are limited, there is not much they can do until they chamber and fire a case. Others, more advanced reloaders can off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face with the case before firing.
In the big inning, there was little concern for what happened to the case body ahead of the rim when fired. In those days cases used rims and then belts. the rim and or belt held the case to the rear. Nothing has changed, except, for reloaders that know what they are doing there are no cases available with thicker rims and or belts and the manufacturer/chamber cutters have not been able to get the rim and shoulder to contact the chamber at the same time.
The decision? Avoid full length sizing to return the case to minimum length or apply the 'leaver policy'. Meaning after the case forms to the chamber and the shoulder of the case forms avoid sizing the case. Like the 7mm Remington mag., avoid excessive sizing.
As has ben suggested or implied do not use pointed bullets in the Model 94, always use round nose bullets. I understand it is impressive to shoot 3 shoot groups that touch, my concern with the 30/30 is the first shot.
There are methods and techniques that allow a reloader to form first then fire. Not a problem but most reloaders are fire formers, they fire to form.
F. Guffey
I have a Model 94 and a 336 Marlin. There are a few reloaders that had the ability to measure case length from the shoulder to the case head before and after firing. One of them sent his 336 Marlin back, the rifle he received was in the same shape.
Most reloaders are limited, there is not much they can do until they chamber and fire a case. Others, more advanced reloaders can off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face with the case before firing.
In the big inning, there was little concern for what happened to the case body ahead of the rim when fired. In those days cases used rims and then belts. the rim and or belt held the case to the rear. Nothing has changed, except, for reloaders that know what they are doing there are no cases available with thicker rims and or belts and the manufacturer/chamber cutters have not been able to get the rim and shoulder to contact the chamber at the same time.
The decision? Avoid full length sizing to return the case to minimum length or apply the 'leaver policy'. Meaning after the case forms to the chamber and the shoulder of the case forms avoid sizing the case. Like the 7mm Remington mag., avoid excessive sizing.
As has ben suggested or implied do not use pointed bullets in the Model 94, always use round nose bullets. I understand it is impressive to shoot 3 shoot groups that touch, my concern with the 30/30 is the first shot.
There are methods and techniques that allow a reloader to form first then fire. Not a problem but most reloaders are fire formers, they fire to form.
F. Guffey
condor bravo
New member
Note that since some of us have mentioned using lead bullets, doing that, the case necks need to be flared to keep from collapsing the case necks or shearing the bullets. This is done with a Lyman .30 caliber neck expander M die for about $20. Simple chamfering will not be sufficient to do the job. Lead bullets for the .30-30 are usually sized to about .310 or at least .309, rather than the standard jacketed bullet diameter of .308.
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IN general, it's exactly the same, bottlenecked rifle case.
In detail, it is a little more tricky, because loading for a tube mag lever rifle means a proper crimp is needed. Cases need to be uniform length, the bullets must be seated tom the right depth (crimp groove) and the crimp must be "enough" without being "too much".
Too much crimp, or crimp with the bullet just barely in the wrong spot can bulge the case to the point where it will not chamber!
It is not a difficult round to load, but it is easy to get die settings just enough "wrong" to make bad rounds.
Also, if you don't already have one in your reloading gear, get a bullet puller. One of the hammer types are fairly cheap, and they do work. If you never need it, fine, but odds are, at some point, you will have a use for it.
458winshooter
New member
30-30 reloads
I have 2 a lever and a bolt in 30-30 haven't done much with the lever action.Its an old Ted Williams from Sears I think.The bolt gun is a Savage 340 and I have tinkered with it and found that the faster you drive them the more accurate it gets.So I load it with Speer 130's and 36 gr of Varget (max load) it groups about an inch at 100 yards.Mounted a B-square scope mount and a cheap 3x9 Simmons scope on it and have a $160 rifle that shoots fine enough for east Tennessee woods and corn fields.I haven't bought a bullet mould for it I can't make up my mind but its in the future.Also good if somebody wants to borrow and don't know how to take care of a gun.(been there done that got it back as junk)
I have 2 a lever and a bolt in 30-30 haven't done much with the lever action.Its an old Ted Williams from Sears I think.The bolt gun is a Savage 340 and I have tinkered with it and found that the faster you drive them the more accurate it gets.So I load it with Speer 130's and 36 gr of Varget (max load) it groups about an inch at 100 yards.Mounted a B-square scope mount and a cheap 3x9 Simmons scope on it and have a $160 rifle that shoots fine enough for east Tennessee woods and corn fields.I haven't bought a bullet mould for it I can't make up my mind but its in the future.Also good if somebody wants to borrow and don't know how to take care of a gun.(been there done that got it back as junk)
Pathfinder45
New member
I have used several powders for the 30-30. 4895 is always good. For ball/spherical propellants I like 748 and especially BL-C(2), which tends to yield the highest velocity at the lowest pressure. I haven't tried the new LVR powder from Hodgdon, but expect it may be excellent as well. I prefer 170 grain bullets. Got Silvertips?
457 Shooter. If and when you decide to try cast bullets, get the Lyman mold #311291, a somewhat bluff found nose bullet in the 175 + or- range depending on your alloy. Cast a few bullets and after they cool assert a few into the muzzle of your rifle. The should be a reasonably snug fit. If the nose is a bit too large and is engraved a bit by the rifling during that test, so much the better. If the bullet's noses are a loose sloppy fit, they will probably never be very accurate.
You want that bullet to be sized to .310" and seated deep enough to feed yet long enough for the bullet to slightly enter the throat/rifling. Then they should, nay will be accurate.
I feed two M94s, two M64s an M54, all winchesters and that works with all of them. My Marlin 336 will hold an easy 1.25" or a bit less with serious hunting loads using that bullet at 2000 FPS. I've taken 15 deer with that load and two others with the RCBS #30-180-FN which casts out at 190 gr. in my alloy. At 1850 to 1900 FPS that load is a killer and duplicates to old .303 Savage round.
Winchester loaded the .303 Sav. to 1950 FPS with a 190 gr. Silver tip but would never use that bullet in the 30-30.
It was a killer on deer and even elk within it's rage, maybe 150 to 175 yards. Winchester would not even sell that bullet as a component. A really good book on the 30-30 is "Winchester's 30-30, the Model 94" by Sam Fadala. Had the pleasure of meeting him a few years back and he's one hell of a nice guy. I keep hoping I'll run into him again so I can get him to sign his book.
Paul B.
You want that bullet to be sized to .310" and seated deep enough to feed yet long enough for the bullet to slightly enter the throat/rifling. Then they should, nay will be accurate.
I feed two M94s, two M64s an M54, all winchesters and that works with all of them. My Marlin 336 will hold an easy 1.25" or a bit less with serious hunting loads using that bullet at 2000 FPS. I've taken 15 deer with that load and two others with the RCBS #30-180-FN which casts out at 190 gr. in my alloy. At 1850 to 1900 FPS that load is a killer and duplicates to old .303 Savage round.
Winchester loaded the .303 Sav. to 1950 FPS with a 190 gr. Silver tip but would never use that bullet in the 30-30.
It was a killer on deer and even elk within it's rage, maybe 150 to 175 yards. Winchester would not even sell that bullet as a component. A really good book on the 30-30 is "Winchester's 30-30, the Model 94" by Sam Fadala. Had the pleasure of meeting him a few years back and he's one hell of a nice guy. I keep hoping I'll run into him again so I can get him to sign his book.Paul B.