Thinking about taking a leap into casting...any suggestions?

W

Wreck-n-Crew

New member
First I might point out that I have a few lead sources in wheel weights. I have 30lb on hand and can get as much as I need for shooting from two sources. The thing is I know I would like to harden them a little to get them ready for 9mm and 45acp to start so any suggestions on mixtures (solder?) etc would be awesome. I am looking to get a BHN of 18 or more and suggestions there as far as 45acp vs 9mm would be helpful too (I think 45 can be 18 as well, but can't remember).

If I understand what I have read thus far it would be best to get it smelted down and skimmed off before mixing the tin/antimony. After Smelting and mixing do I pour to ingots or do I smelt and skim then pour into ingots and add my tin/antimony later before casting?

I know an old guy who does some casting and can get some help from him but he doesn't mix his lead and buys it premixed. So other than actually using the ingots to meltdown and cast I think he can't help me.

I was thinking a cast iron pot for smelting and something separate for casting. I would like to do this on a budget, but If i really need something I should not skimp on let me know! I am planning on small batches casting (2,000 max) and large batches smelting so my casting pot can be smaller.

Molds? Are Lees finicky? Also water drop better for hardness? Sorry for throwing so much out there at once and I don't expect one person to have to answer it all.

I have a propane heat source, Lead wheel weights, 3gallon cast Iron Pot, Scale for weighing bullets, place outdoors, Welding gloves, Leather apron,

Need bullet Molds, casting pot, thermometer, Slotted spoon, Ladle, Ingot molds, and?

Thanks, Wreck
 
First thing, you have to keep the zinc, iron, and other weird types out of your smelt, easiest way is to keep the temp down around 600, then all the junk will float and can be skimmed. I sort with a pair of electrician's side cutters, easy to tell soft lead from everything else, slow but I've got the time. Separate your soft lead "stick-ons", they are basically pure lead and can be useful when you get further into casting. Addition of tin doesn't do much for hardness, mostly improves flowability. This stress on hardness is a bunch of crap anyway. WW material as cast is perfect of 99% of casting needs. It's mostly a sales gimmick used by commercial casters who need harder boolits to survive the rigors of shipping. You need to slug your barrel to determine what size you need. A boolit needs to be .001-.002" over groove size or as large as will fit in the throat. This will basically eliminate any chance of leading. I will not comment of revolvers or pistols as I am not experienced with those. There is a ton of info over on the castboolits web site, more than you can absorb in a week. Hope this helps. GS
 
18 BHN is too hard for .45's. I use about no more than 13BHN for every gun except for hunting/self defense loads. Those get a softer bullet.

Next, save your money on tin.
Melt the WW, flux it, pour it into ingots for later. That way you can weigh the ingots and mix exactly the right amount of soft lead or tin.
I add tin ONLY to bullets made for lots of expansion. Target/plinking bullets are just straight air cooled clip on WW.

There is a big difference in hardness with the clip on WW and stick on WW. I use the COWW mainly and add SOWW or/and lead pipe 50/50/2% tin to soften the bullet. works great.

Lee molds work fine for me, but you get what you pay for.
Start out with one or two. If you wreck it your only out $20.
You can make a LOT of bullets for that $20. I wrecked my first Lee mold a few years ago, but still made around 3500+ bullets. Thats cheap shooting.
I actually managed to salvage that mold a while back and turned it into a hollow point bullet for 44mag.:D
 
I also think you're unneccesarily concerned with hardness. For 9mm, .38, .40 and .45 there isn't any benefit to 18BHN+ and could be detrimental in terms of leading. Straight clip-on wheelweights (air cooled) are usually just fine as they are, I often add back some softer alloy especially with .38 and .45 as they are low pressure. ,

Lee molds are usually fine, just follow the directions on cleaning before the first use and lightly lubing the pins ans sprue pivot (I use beeswax mostly). They won't last forever but should for at least several thousand if you're careful (I use 2-holers) and they are cheap. Good to start with anyway. Their tumble lube designs are very flexible and I've never had to size one after casting to get it to shoot well.

Good luck, and BTW cheap muffin tins from a thrift store make fine ingot molds. Normal size ones get about 1/3 to 1/2 full, bit more than 1lb but work fine for my purposes.
 
I fully agree with Ifishsum, what he said is very correct.

A question on your list? What is the 'Slotted spoon' for?

If it is to remove that gunk/wheel weight clips/dirt, a pouring ladle does this very well and you need one anyway.

The mix of your alloy will have a great effect on the 'drop' size from your mold/s. When starting up is a good time to 'slug' the bore/s of weapons you will be pushing your own lead in :). Get the proper size of 'sizing' die. The 'lube'! There is a whole world of 'lube' out there or you could try 'Powder Coating'. But this too is your choice.

What ever, take your time and study each step for the best results. Casting is a lot of fun in itself and the possibilities are all in a pot of lead.

Be safe and enjoy,

OSOK
 
There is a very active casting community over at castboolits.gunloads.com and you might want to check it out also.

I use a straight wheelweight alloy for all my bullets. I usually water drop them, which adds a bit of hardness. I don't usually add any solder (tin) and have been satisfied with what I have gotten from just using straight wheelweight alloy.

I smelt my wheelweights into ingots in a cast iron dutch oven over banjo type burner that was originally for propane that I've converted (larger orifice / jet) to use with natural gas. I flux this with sawdust and used motor oil while stirring with a cedar strip.

I lube my bullets with a 50:50 mixture of Lee Liquid Alox and mineral spirits and dump them off to dry on a piece of glass or the plastic top from a 5g bucket. I then add a dash of talcum powder to them when I store them in plastic zip-lock bags. I don't bother counting them, I just store them in 6-lb (42,000 grains) lots, so the number in each bag is dependent upon the weight of the bullet that I'm casting. For example, 230gr bullets come out to around 182 per bag whereas for 55gr .223 bullets it works out to be around 763 per bag.

You can use a slotted spoon to skim off the clips and other junk that is in with the wheelweights. I use a stainless ladle that I've cut slots in instead. I've seen other people use the stainless wire mesh strainers that are normally sold for dipping into fry oil to remove things that you are frying -- kind of a wire mesh ladle.

Some people pre-sort their wheelweights so that they only have the clip-on lead ones going into one batch of alloy and the stick-on ones going into another batch and everything else does not go into the smelting pot. I tend to be lazy and just dump everything into my smelting pot, but I do not run it at a high enough temperature that I have to worry about zinc contamination of my alloy. A casting thermometer is nice to have, but I've never contaminated an alloy even without one.

I welded up my own smelting ingot molds from some steel channel iron and the ingots just barely fit in my Lee 20-lb pot. When I get tired of casting bullets, I'll often just put a new ingot in the casting pot and after it melts, recast it into the Wal-Mart stainless condiment cups since that size does not cool off my casting pot as much when I add them as compared to the large size ingot that I get when smelting. Since I'm using the Lee bottom pour pot, this also has the affect of producing a purer alloy in the condiment cup "molds" since any oxides or contaminants float to the top of the casting pot.
 
Last edited:
Good info guys.

The BHN seems to be a controversial subject in casting. Most commercial casters use harder BHN #'s . Read much on it, but depending on who wrote it, things come out different. Guess it makes more sense to me is that we used softer lead for years and it worked. Not to mention softer lead will not have as many issues with Obturation. Also that Commercial casters may do things differently for different reasons (including sales?). Anyhow, with all the people who successfully cast and shoot softer lead it only makes since to follow them.

As far as the molds go does it make more since to use Lee for faster casting because the aluminum heats up quicker and cools down faster or is that a selling point? OR should I just spend the money on a good mold and start out right? And if I do get a different mold, should I get a 4 or 6 bullet mold or is it better to start with 2?

Taking notes...Thanks again.
 
A question on your list? What is the 'Slotted spoon' for?
Click to expand...
Skimming out metal clips when smelting. Does the slotted spoon seem necessary or is it overkill?

There is a very active casting community over at castboolits.gunloads.com and you might want to check it out also.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ill check it out.:)

Some people pre-sort their wheelweights so that they only have the clip-on lead ones going into one batch of alloy and the stick-on ones going into another batch and everything else does not go into the smelting pot.
Click to expand...
Since that's the second mention of it I will do that for sure. Most of what I have on hand are clip on wheel weights. I'll sort them.
 
Wreck-n-Crew said:
Since that's the second mention of it I will do that for sure. Most of what I have on hand are clip on wheel weights. I'll sort them.
Click to expand...

I'm not that concerned with my alloy, so I just dump it all in my smelting pot and just get whatever it turns out to be for the resultant alloy. If I was doing long range shooting, I would probably be a bit more picky, but even when I'm hunting, the distances are fairly short due to the denseness of the brush.
 
Skimming out metal clips when smelting. Does the slotted spoon seem necessary or is it overkill?
Click to expand...

Yes it's necessary (or some kind of skimmer), but you can use a 30¢ one from the Salvation Army store. Also get you some leather welding gloves; you'll probably want to buy them new. ;)

I have over 1000 lbs of ingots that I've rendered using just a 1.5 quart stainless steel pot and a $10 electric hotplate. (actually I've burned up 2 hotplates and I'm on my 3rd) I need to build a dedicated 50 lb electric furnace someday... You don't want to melt wheel weights or other scrap lead in your good casting pot.

Sawdust makes a splendid flux for melting lead. Used motor oil is pretty good, but not as good as sawdust. (I use both)
 
"Does the slotted spoon seem necessary or is it overkill?"

There is no such thing as overkill if that is what you want to do.
I've just never seen one used. My dad had this big old spoon he used to dip the crap out of his pot when I was a kid. Still got that old 32 cal round nose mold packed away. No comments please, yes we had 'catridges' back then. I've just always used a Lyman ladle. I may have to look at a slotted spoon.

Enjoy, while you can.

OSOK
 
Wreck-n-Crew said:
As far as the molds go does it make more since to use Lee for faster casting because the aluminum heats up quicker and cools down faster or is that a selling point? OR should I just spend the money on a good mold and start out right? And if I do get a different mold, should I get a 4 or 6 bullet mold or is it better to start with 2?
Click to expand...

I started with with ordering at least one 2-cavity mold for each of the calibers that I have firearms for. After the first couple of casting sessions, I really wished that I had ordered the 6-cavity molds instead. I tried running two molds at the same time in calibers that were different enough that it would be easy to tell the bullets apart after I had dried them. That helped, but I still was not producing as many per hour as I wished. The only thing that I use for 2-cavity anymore are the 230 gr .309" mold and the 405 gr .459" mold. Within a month, I had ordered 6-cavity molds from Midway for all the 2-cavity handgun molds that I had.
 
Powder coating will be next

You will be casting and then want to shoot what you cast out of polygonal rifled barrels so powder coating will be your next step for those calibres instead of using the lee liquid lube.
 
I started last year with a couple Lee molds and a Lee 10 lb bottom poor pot that a friend gave me. Bought some lead from a member on castboolits forum. That was my start and I'm still doing it that way but I have a 5 gallon bucket of wheel wheel weights to make into ingots when I get some time off.
 
hartcreek said:
You will be casting and then want to shoot what you cast out of polygonal rifled barrels so powder coating will be your next step for those calibres instead of using the lee liquid lube.
Click to expand...

Many of us shoot lead out of polygonal barrels (e.g. Glocks) and have not encountered any problems that would lead us to change our barrels.

I've been considering getting into powder coating of the bullets, but it is not because of leading on polygonal barrels.
 
I have a few lead sources in wheel weights. I have 30lb on hand and can get as much as I need for shooting from two sources.
Click to expand...

First and foremost, gather and store up as much as you can get your grubbies on. Sort them out, steel and zinc go away and only lead clip on (CO) or stick on, (SO) stays. I hate to say this but 30# is only a slightly decent batch for me to pour up for one caliber.

With lead wheel weights heading fast into the land of the Dodo bird and Passenger pigeon, if you can get them do so with wild abandon. Sorted, cleaned, and made into ingots they will stack and store out of the way in corners and such forever. Being easily accessible however won't.

As you can see, around 98% of handgun and even most rifle bullets can easily be poured from straight COWW in one form or fashion. Using the SOWW as pure you can alloy it down into softer, or simply water quench for harder. About the only thing needed to add to straight COWW alloy is maybe some 95-5 solder or high grade pewter.

I know an old guy who does some casting and can get some help from him but he doesn't mix his lead and buys it premixed. So other than actually using the ingots to meltdown and cast I think he can't help me.

I was thinking a cast iron pot for smelting and something separate for casting. I would like to do this on a budget, but If i really need something I should not skimp on let me know! I am planning on small batches casting (2,000 max) and large batches smelting so my casting pot can be smaller.
Click to expand...

This older fellow could be picking up a specific alloy for a specific use, or he could also be simply purchasing straight COWW alloy already smelted, fluxed, and in ready to pour ingots. There are many who sell it as well as range lead which is also another alternative. The biggest issue with straight range lead is that you really don't know what it has or doesn't have in it. Case in point, I got a 65# box off a friend who purchased a large amount. From what I had "read" most referred to it a almost pure and certainly lacking in tin or antimony. So says I, I'll add in a full roll of 95-5 solder to it and give it a good start. Well I now mix one pound or less of it, to 15 or more pounds of straight COWW alloy to give that a little kick of tin. I don't know what was in the stuff, but it ruined the whole mes for casting bullets. It is tin rich for sure and certain and to date I haven't gotten one good bullet poured form that alloy on it's own.

I have a propane heat source, Lead wheel weights, 3gallon cast Iron Pot, Scale for weighing bullets, place outdoors, Welding gloves, Leather apron,

Need bullet Molds, casting pot, thermometer, Slotted spoon, Ladle, Ingot molds, and?
Click to expand...

So as to your cast iron pot, yes that will work, as will most any other steel type pan that has fairly thick walls. The biggest thing you want to be DAMN sure of is that you don't put more weights in the pot than the stand your heating on can handle. The last thing in the world you want is a lead lava explosion if the stand gives way. Trust me when I say it won't be pretty or clean up easily.

I would also recommend picking up one of the Lee 4-20 pots. While there are many who hate them, and many who feel you get better results from ladle pouring, to learn on they aren't that expensive, and they can be used to put out the bullets for sure and certain. I see you mentioned making production (2K batches). That will wear your arm out with a ladle.

Lee molds are great for starting out with as you end up learning how to take care of a mold. There isn't any abusing them and keeping them in working order for too long. I have close to two dozen in this that or the other calibers, and they all pour good bullets and have held up well with only minor issues here and there.

There are plenty of great molds being made by others as well, and it is true you usually DO get what you pay for. That said it is really nice to be able to pick up a mold to try out for les than $30 or/and if you like it a lot you can get a 6 cavity of it for less than $60. You won't see much in the way of that with the other makes.

I CANNOT suggest highly enough, to put in as much time reading the sticky's and using the search over on Castboolits all the while literally taking notes in a binder for future reference. There is literally decades upon decades worth of knowledge over there, already sitting there waiting for you to learn on. Most questions ahve been asked in one form or fashion and are living up at he tops of the subforums as sticky's I studied literally for almost a year and a half before I poured and shot my first home made bullet. Is it necessary, not at all, but it gives you a head start so when this pop up on you, you recognize what to do and don't have to stop what your doing, then post a question, and wait for three days until it gets sorted out.

Also you should look at the site www.lasc.us and download at the very least, and/or print it out for the best, the pdf version of From Ingot to Target by Glen Fryxell, as well as other tidbits of knowledge located in the depths of that site. It will answer many of the questions your already asking and you can take most if not all of it to the bank.

Well hope that helps. Read up, stock up, tool up, and get back here in a month or so with your casting questions. :eek:

Just kiddin, it'll take you much longer than that.......:D
 
Last edited:
I started with with ordering at least one 2-cavity mold for each of the calibers that I have firearms for. After the first couple of casting sessions, I really wished that I had ordered the 6-cavity molds instead. I tried running two molds at the same time in calibers that were different enough that it would be easy to tell the bullets apart after I had dried them. That helped, but I still was not producing as many per hour as I wished. The only thing that I use for 2-cavity anymore are the 230 gr .309" mold and the 405 gr .459" mold. Within a month, I had ordered 6-cavity molds from Midway for all the 2-cavity handgun molds that I had.
Click to expand...

I think I will dive in and get the 6 cavity. Guess I would need to pay a little more attention to warming them up well (after getting the metal prepped properly).

So as to your cast iron pot, yes that will work, as will most any other steel type pan that has fairly thick walls. The biggest thing you want to be DAMN sure of is that you don't put more weights in the pot than the stand your heating on can handle. The last thing in the world you want is a lead lava explosion if the stand gives way. Trust me when I say it won't be pretty or clean up easily.
Click to expand...
Strong steel stand to hold the weight good point. I have a buddy with a muffler shop...I can go over and build a stand from scrap muffler pipe and weld it up.

I CANNOT suggest highly enough, to put in as much time reading the sticky's and using the search over on Castboolits all the while literally taking notes in a binder for future reference. There is literally decades upon decades worth of knowledge over there, already sitting there waiting for you to learn on.
Click to expand...
Yep I read them. Nothing like someone who has been there to point the way. Also Went to www.castboolits.gunloads.com as suggested and got an account. They are full of information too. I feel blessed to have more resources than most did when they started out.

I've been considering getting into powder coating of the bullets, but it is not because of leading on polygonal barrels.
Click to expand...
Not my reason either. I will shoot indoors in the cold and I don't want to smoke the place up. Plus when working up loads I won't have to worry about scrubbing a barrel if I get the cast to hard and the load to light while working up a load. Then there is another reason. My buddy has several different calibers and pistols that can't be mixed such as 38 special and .357. He color coats hos bullets as an added precaution.

Thanks again y'all.;)
 
As a beginner, skip the 6-hole mold. You'll want to get some experience with the two hole first. I have been using a double for a couple years and still had trouble getting all six to look decent when a friend loaned me his 9mm.

Word of advice about Lee molds. When you whack open the sprue plate and dump the bullets, set the mold down on a flat surface when closing. The aluminum mold doesn't get along well with the steel pins and can round it out. I found this out the hard way.

Oh and if you get a Lee bottom pour, don't leave lead in the pot when you are done. Junk accumulates in the bottom and leaks develop.
 
The molds are cheap, get one 6-hole (and a handle) and a different 2-hole so you can try them both.

I have a Lee 20 lb pot and I leave it at least half full all the time. It seldom clogs because I only put clean lead in it. Notice I didn't say it never clogs, but I don't think the leftover lead has anything to do with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top