Thinking about a big bore CCW revolver

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chaim

New member
I've always loved revolvers. However, over the past several years, I've moved mostly to autos for home defense and when I can carry and my revolvers have been mostly relegated to range use. Well, since I bought my 6 round Taurus 856 and my new model Colt King Cobra, that has changed, and when I'm in states where I can carry, those are what usually come with me.

With revolvers, I still have my preference for capacity, but whereas I want 10+ rounds in an auto, I'm happy with 6 in a revolver (I have retired my 5 round J-frames). However, in the winter, I like a bigger bore than 9mm/38spl. During warmer months, I'm perfectly happy with a 9mm or .38 with modern hollow points. However, even with the advancements in modern hollow point design, heavy clothing can still clog the hollow point and keep them from expanding. A larger caliber makes a bigger hole, so should the hollow point fail to expand, it doesn't rely as much on reliable expansion for its effectiveness. So, in the winter I often pick a .40S&W auto over my 9mms. I do have a .45LC S&W 625MG, but the 4" N-frame is just a little large to carry most of the time (I do carry it at times though), so I'm thinking something smaller so I can carry a larger bore revolver during the winter months may be nice.

One direction I may go is a 2-3" N-frame (.45LC, .44spl, or .44mag loaded with .44spl), but I am concerned that large cylinder may make it just as hard to conceal comfortably as my 625. I do like IWB, so the shorter barrel will be a little more comfortable, and I do sometimes carry OWB so the shorter barrel will be a little easier to conceal, but it will still have the same massive 6 round cylinder. However, the greater weight also makes it harder to carry all day. On the plus side, addition to the 20% greater round count vs. a 5 round revolver, it also will give controllable and quick follow up shots with its greater weight.

Another option is to go with one of several 5 round options, many of which I've had my eye on for years. I'm not entirely comfortable with only 5 rounds, but the larger bore does help compensate (while I don't like 5 rounds of .38spl, 5 rounds of .45LC or .44spl will make me a little more comfortable with the lower round count). These are lighter than the N-frame making them easier to carry, though with correspondingly slower follow up shots. The smaller cylinder will make them much easier to conceal.

So, my 5 round options (more or less in order):

  • Charter Arms Bulldog in .44spl. This is pretty much the standard in this niche. Slightly smaller than a K-frame, barely heavier than a J-frame. Recoil may be a bit stout as a result, with slower than ideal follow up shots, but it will be easy to carry and conceal.
  • Taurus 431 in .44spl. It is about the size and weight of a K-frame, so it will handle the recoil better and provide faster follow up shots than the lighter options. I also like that it is a 3" and not a 2 or 2.5" barrel like most of the others. However, it is a hair heavier and larger (still quite concealable).
  • Taurus 450 or 445. I've wanted the .45LC 450 since it was new, but they are hard to find and have become quite pricey when you can find one. So, I might go with the .44spl 445, though their prices have been rising since they were discontinued as well (they are cheaper and easier to find since they were made longer).
  • Charter Arms Bulldog in .45LC.. I already have a .45LC revolver and love the caliber. However, the .45LC Bulldog is slightly larger than the .44spl, and I don't stock .45LC and won't stock .44spl, just buying (or loading) both as needed.
  • S&W 69 or used .44spl L-frame. A bit bigger and heavier than I really want, but that also means quicker follow up shots and more practice. Some are 4" barrels, but the discontinued .44spl L-frame options are 2.5 and 3" and I'd love to find a 3". Unfortunately, they can be on the expensive side for my current budget.
  • Ruger GP101. Similar negatives and advantages vs. the S&W L-frames. Though, the 3" is currently in production, and it is a hair less expensive. I mostly put these in order, but this may be tied with the S&W (and depending upon my mood, may be slightly higher on the list on some days)
  • Charter Arms Pitbull in .40S&W. I know the .45ACP version is larger than the .44spl Bulldog (I think it is the same as the .45LC Bulldog), though I don't know exactly where this falls in comparison. With a 10 round .40S&W auto (a M&P40c) that is smaller, I'm not sure about this one since it uses the same round. Also, I'd lose the revolver only bullet shapes that make a revolver so versatile. Though, it will be a lot cheaper to shoot than then .44spl or .45LC options.


I know generally how people view the different manufacturers, so I'm going to ask something difficult, ignore those reputations. I'm asking, especially those who own one or more of the above, for advice based upon the strengths and weaknesses of each for carry and shooting. In your opinion, are the carry strengths of the Bulldog enough to ignore the recoil and pick it over the GP100, L-frames or Taurus 431? Are the quicker follow up shots of the 431, GP100 or L-frames worth the extra weight? Is the extra size of the .45LC Bulldog worth picking it over the .44spl, or are they a wash otherwise so go smaller? Is the 2.5" or 3" N-frame going to carry that much easier than my 4" Mountain Gun so it is worth going that way for the 6th round? And of course, why (since I'm not just taking a poll but looking for help deciding which way to go and these are all things I'm weighing in my decision).
 
I truly enjoy my Taurus 431. It's like a "grown-up" J-frame. It definately feels different than my 2 1/2 inch K-frame. Have a short boot-grip style wooden grip on it. Doubt you will find one. Haven't seen one at shows or stores in NE TN in years. Maybe a Buldog could be a good substitute.
 
I've got a little experience with the Charter Bulldog. I've never used one for carry, but I've fired a couple over the years and just bought another one. I haven't had a chance to shoot this one yet, but see no reason to think it's any different than the older ones. All of mine have been the 3" classic models.

The recoil really isn't awful, at least not with the moderate loads I've always used, but IMHO, you might as well go ahead and buy a set of rubber grips from Charter right from the get go. The wooden grips hurt my hand just cycling the action. I've never had the nerve to shoot with them. I just know they'd beat my knuckle to a pulp. The rubber ones are a little bigger, and protect my middle finger much better. Being bigger they allow a better hand purchase on it. I can actually get a three finger grip, vs two on the wood ones.

My latest one I got new, and it was STIFF as could be I think, at first. I've cycled the action several hundred times times and it seems to have either smoothed out, or my thumb and finger have gotten stronger. Another piece of advice. The hammer checkering is sharp. It will work on your thumb like a wood rasp. A small piece of duct tape protected my thumb during all that hand cycling.

Kinda sounds like I'm down on the gun. Not at all. I might start to carry it myself if I ever get a chance to get to the range and shoot it a bit.

I don't have a picture with the new Charter grips.

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I've also owned one of the Taurus, Rossi, and Smith and Wesson 69's over the years. Nice guns all, but heavier than the Charter.
 
I owned a Taurus 445 ultralite during a brief window in my life. I loved that gun. It was light but the ribbed rubbery grip absorbed the recoil nicely even while practicing using Buffalo Bore defense loads. The trigger was nice and POA and POI were the same at 15 yds. That gun was really easy to shoot accurately.

It was a bit thick for concealed carry. I could never IWB it comfortably so it became the console gun. I don't reload; the price of .44 spl sent it to a new home.
 
I used to have a 2.5 inch 44mag SW 329. I had 44 Mag 240 gr XTP loaded in it. Just to pull one up I found this link on Guns America:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/941604048/329PD-Alaska-Backpacker-IV-TALO-w-2-5-bb.htm

I bought it new on either Guns America of Gunbroker... can't remember. Very light... kicks but is manageable. Not something you want to spend a lot of time on the range with but you will not mind carrying this around.

I gave this away, more like forced my friend to take it cause he spends so much time in the woods and refused to buy a second gun. And his only gun was a 380. He liked the 329... PITA!!
 
For 44 Specials I'm partial to the Taurus. But I do have 7 other 44's in the safe to keep them company...

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These are K frame size and steel - so a Glock 43 is much lighter and easier to carry. You have to take a gun with you for it to do any good. If a gun gets left behind for any reason it's a range gun IMHO.

The snubby saved my bacon one day and I'll never get rid of it. Make sure you can check out the Taurus guns before you buy one. I've never had a problem with either of these, but others have had problems...
 
I see you've got a S&W 69 on the list...a great choice in spite of the Infernal Lock, the sleeved bbl. and that ball lock up design change to the old yoke lock up. I have the 4.25" bbl'd model, which I don't think you're interested in, but never the less, mine has been first rate, and I have a lifetime of experience with S&W Magnums to compare with it. It's at least as accurate as my old Smiths from the 60's, 70's, & 80's.

It's got S&W's superb SA trigger, but I did find the DA trigger a cpl pounds heavier than I like, which has lightened a bit with use. Even so, I don't have trouble making playing card sized groups for head shots from 15 yds or more. These are with my handloads put up in Magnum or .44 Special brass to give ~1000 fps with 240 gr. LSWC's. Plenty of smack, even for putting live stock down here on the farm...

While the 69 only has 5 shots in the cylinder, it weighs within an oz. of my M19 .357 unloaded. With a 4" bbl. that's 36 oz for the 19 and 37.2 for the M69...and that, my friends, makes for a great all day carry gun. Another plus is the SS construction making the 69 an ideal back country gun...magnums or specials as you choose.

Lastly, some don't like the the S&W issue grips on it, but I find them especially good with heavier Spl. or Magnum loads. They soak up the recoil, especially at the critical trigger guard spot that perennially raps my knuckle. Fugly, yep, but they work for me.

It'd be my choice, again in 4.25" bbl. length, as I find the add'l 1-1/2" of bbl. length no harder to conceal than the shorter one. It's the grip length that matters for my OWB method of carry, (OWB w/cant @ 4 o'clock) And don't forget the weight...a big item for me...and I do carry with a good gun belt each and every day.

YMMv, Rod
 
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Merry Christmas to me,
Merry Christmas to me,
Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to me!

I got a S&W M69 2.5" barrel from Santa :).

Heavy & hard on the back of the neck to carry in a shoulder rig - but - there is a certain level of confidence you get when it's stoked w/240 grain JSP .44 mag loads.
You know, for those times you run into a rampaging hippo @ Wal Mart ;) :D

All kidding aside though - when things get real you should play your best hand.
My "best hand" is the S&W D/A revolver. I load magnums instead of specials - simply because of the short barrel.
 
My everyday carry gun is a 629-6 (SKU 163636) 5" N-Frame .44mag "Classic" (full-underlug). I carry it from pajamas-off until pajamas-on, in a homemade cloth under-the-shirt vertical shoulder holster rig. Very comfortable and well-concealed. I use a VERY relaxed grip, with relaxed and flexed elbows, and with my feet perpendicular to the target. That relaxed grip results in a VERY high muzzle rise (almost vertical), but the recoil is soaked up by inertia of my forearms, and it is very pleasant to shoot that way, even though I use full-spec 240gr JHP Underwoods exclusively.
 
One other piece of information:

Before, I carried a 4-1/4" S&W69 (L-Frame 5-shot .44mag). I liked it, but the cylinder-stop would often be inertially pulled down by the recoil with full-spec loads. That would unlock the cylinder, and result in cylinder rotation during the recoil, which would sometimes result in the next live round being skipped. I've never heard of anyone else having this problem, so it may not happen with the more rigid grips and shooting styles that most people use. My very relaxed grip and shooting style probably makes the inertial unlocking of the cylinder-stop more likely, especially with full-spec ammo like the Underwoods that I exclusively shoot.

Because of the above problem, I bought my 5" 629 N-Frame. It is quite a bit heavier than my model 69, and that apparently is why it doesn't suffer from the cylinder-stop inertial pull-down problem. I wasn't sure I could comfortably carry the 629, but I tried it and was pleasantly surprised. It's been my carry gun for about a year now, and I expect it's going to get the job from here on out.
 
I started with a Bulldog in 2005. After the first range session I sold it. That gun had to many issues for a brand new gun and I felt it was junk.

Next was a Taurus 445 in .44 Spl that I bought used for $200. I loved this gun! It was accurate and trouble free. Carried it for 10 years and not one problem. I sold it only because I started carrying autos.

Out of all you listed it would be my first choice.
 
Went back to my notes and I see I acquired my Bulldog .44 Special 2010. Notes also say that the first day out I was hitting the 12" plate at 50 yards and the man sized one at 77 yards with it. Anyway, satisfied as my carry, when I carry concealed. I used to shoot it once a month, but rarely now. I have plenty of other .44 Specials to accompany me to the range. I would not classify the Bulldog as an 'every day' shooter. It's just there if I ever (hopefully never) need it and is easy to carry. For woods carry, I always open carry, so one of my other .45 Colt or .44 Special revolvers get the nod there.
 
chaim said:
So, my 5 round options (more or less in order):

  • Charter Arms Bulldog in .44spl. This is pretty much the standard in this niche. Slightly smaller than a K-frame, barely heavier than a J-frame. Recoil may be a bit stout as a result, with slower than ideal follow up shots, but it will be easy to carry and conceal.
  • Charter Arms Bulldog in .45LC.. I already have a .45LC revolver and love the caliber. However, the .45LC Bulldog is slightly larger than the .44spl, and I don't stock .45LC and won't stock .44spl, just buying (or loading) both as needed.
  • Charter Arms Pitbull in .40S&W. I know the .45ACP version is larger than the .44spl Bulldog (I think it is the same as the .45LC Bulldog), though I don't know exactly where this falls in comparison. With a 10 round .40S&W auto (a M&P40c) that is smaller, I'm not sure about this one since it uses the same round. Also, I'd lose the revolver only bullet shapes that make a revolver so versatile. Though, it will be a lot cheaper to shoot than then .44spl or .45LC options.
Click to expand...

I had bad luck with a couple Charters, earlier in this decade, which leads me to want to avoid them. And I think Buffalo Bore recommends against their .44 Special in the CA Bulldog.


  • Taurus 431 in .44spl. It is about the size and weight of a K-frame, so it will handle the recoil better and provide faster follow up shots than the lighter options. I also like that it is a 3" and not a 2 or 2.5" barrel like most of the others. However, it is a hair heavier and larger (still quite concealable).
  • Taurus 450 or 445. I've wanted the .45LC 450 since it was new, but they are hard to find and have become quite pricey when you can find one. So, I might go with the .44spl 445, though their prices have been rising since they were discontinued as well (they are cheaper and easier to find since they were made longer).
Click to expand...

My own preference would be to look for one of these, or the Taurus .44 Tracker. The usual Tracker is a 5" gun, but I know there was a 3" version out there. Trouble is, I hardly ever see any of these guns.
 
OK, I'm still thinking about the options...

I think I've dropped the 629 from my list. While, the 2.6" and 3" barrel 629 are beautiful guns, I don't think I can justify them right now based upon what I am looking for. First, it is just too much money for me right now, but more importantly, the 1.7" cylinder width is going to be tough to conceal, and not particularly comfortable IWB. Sure, the shorter OAL will be an improvement over my 4" 625MG, but the other options will be a bigger improvement.

The Taurus 450 may as well not be considered. They are quite difficult to find these days, and last time I did see one on Gunbroker (about a year ago) it was over $700 which is just too much for a used Taurus. If I happen to come across a great deal (say a good example for around $500-550) while I'm still looking, I'll probably jump on it, but it isn't worth spending too much more mental energy on it since that isn't likely to happen.

I didn't put it on my original list, but I've been checking out the .44mag version of the Taurus Tracker quite a bit. A hair smaller than the L-frame or GP100 (it is on Taurus' compact frame), it could be a serviceable carry gun. The price is right. It is a bit small and light for .44mag (I don't like shooting more than one or two cylinders of .44mag even in a large frame revolver), but it would make a terrific .44spl with the occasional ability to load up magnums (or hot .44spl) when camping or hiking in black bear country (though I have a few .357mag and my 625MG which serve that role well, so it isn't really a needed capability). However, I'm not a huge fan of ports on a defensive gun, though I could overlook that.

The Taurus 445 or 431 are still very high on the list. I'd probably have to buy them on Gunbroker where they show up fairly often instead of in person though, which can always be a gamble both with Taurus and with used guns. The 431 may be an emotional favorite though since it is a 3" K-frame sized gun, my favorite sized revolver, and it has been on my list for nearly 20 years. The extra weight and size would make it more pleasant to shoot than the Bulldog, making for more practice, though the flip side of that is that the Bulldog would be easier to carry and conceal.

I've nearly dropped the .45ACP Charter Arms Pitbull (which wasn't on my original list) and .45LC Bulldog. The cylinder is a bit over 1/2" larger than the .44spl Bulldog or .40S&W Pitbull. However, I haven't dropped it completely as it is about the same size as the S&W 69 and Ruger GP100, and the price is right.

The Pitbull in .40 is much higher on my list than it originally was. Big bore, cheap ammo (comparatively), relatively low recoil, with the smaller size and narrower cylinder of the .44spl Bulldog making it one of the smallest guns on this list. The negative of course being the loss of some of the revolver only bullet shapes and weights that give a revolver its versatility (though, I will mostly load whatever I get with premium modern JHP for defense, and whatever is cheap for extended range sessions).

I think the GP100 may be higher on my list now than the S&W 69. It is a little cheaper (enough to matter), and is available in a true 3" vs. the 2.75" of the S&W (I love a 3" barreled medium frame revolver).

So, currently, more or less in order, here is my current list:

1 (tie): Charter Arms Bulldog in .44spl
1 (tie): Taurus 431 (3")
3: Charter Arms Pitbull in .40S&W
4: Taurus Tracker in .44mag
5: Ruger GP100
6: S&W 69, probably with the 2.75" barrel, though I'd consider the 4"
7: Charter Arms Bulldog in .45LC
8: Charter Arms Pitbull in .45ACP

The difference between 1 and 4 is pretty close (it is almost a matter of picking one randomly to decide between them at this point). The distance between 4 and 5 is close, but not as close as the previous 4. The distance between 5 and 6, and again between 6 and 7 is much greater.

I'm not sure where the 445 falls on the list, but is still in strong contention.



Edit (about an hour later):

The Bulldog in .44spl may have dropped further down the list. I've been researching loads I might use in each gun, and two of the loads I'm most interested in (a SWCHP from Underwood and another from Buffalo Bore) specifically say not to use them in the Bulldog. It is still in consideration (I'd probably use a Speer Gold Dot most of the time anyway), but that makes the Tracker, 431 and GP100 much more attractive if I go with a .44 (spl or mag).
 
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Another vote for the Bulldog. Not a single problem with mine in the past 4 years. However, do not shoot "Skeeter" or other stout loads in the little fella. I load 200 gr XTP or Gold Dots over Power Pistol at just over 850. Pretty lively, but works for me.
 
I had the modern Taurus 44 special... are they the Model 445 or something like that? It was okay. I think it had an aluminum frame. It went bang every time. The trigger was mediocre. I traded it eventually.

My Taurus revolvers from the mid 80's until the early 90's have been very good. I think the 431 might be from somewhere in there. I think there was a blue version and a stainless version. Maybe the other one was a 441? Some of my older Taurus revolvers have excellent triggers.

I sometimes carry my CA Bulldog. It has a shrouded hammer, so it's snagproof. It's surprisingly light. It has the "toylike" CA trigger, which feels a little odd but is smooth enough. It's given me zero problems and I like the large caliber. I believe you can also get them DAO.

I got a 45acp "Pitbull" used at the LGS. I think the original owner dumped it on them knowing it had problems. It locked up tight on me after two cylinders. The factory fixed it quickly and for free. I think they are only available as DA/SA. The little clip things that hold the rounds in are clever, though they make reloading a little slower.

I own, have owned, and have shot plenty of other big-bore carry revolvers. The CA Bulldog with a DAO or shrouded hammer is my choice. It's a little larger than a j-frame and lightweight. It's easy to carry.

My Bulldog and Pitbull have some recoil, but it doesn't bother me at all. I would call it moderate. Tiny 380's and 357 snubs are much harder on my hands.
 
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