There's more going on than just the election

M

Monkeyleg

New member
Was watching CNN's "Capital Gang" last night, and Bill Bennett was on. Normally a pretty reserved and polite man, Bennett was definitely on offense. At times he looked like he wanted to use one of his massive hands to rip Margaret Carlson's head off (wouldn't take much effort). In watching the show, though, I was struck by the level of animosity on the part of the panelists. The show is usually marked by animated and hot discussion, but this bordered very closely on pure hatred.

This got me thinking about something. These emotions and the level of antagonism we're seeing cannot be just about the election for president. Yes, there are great differences on issues--abortion, gun rights, taxes--but the public isn't overly hot about any of them. We talk (and the other side talks) about Supreme Court justices but, face it, whoever wins the Oval Office is not going to have the political capital to get confirmation of anything but the most milktoast, middle of the road nominees.

In past close contests (Nixon/Kennedy, Humphrey/Nixon, Carter/Ford) we had candidates bow out rather than pursue the legal route. Now we have the candidates fighting over a few hundred votes, and the parties going at each other like never before, even though the "winner" will be damaged goods and the loser forever tarnished.

This tells me that this fight is for something else. Payback for Clinton's impeachment? Payback for Clinton just being there? Payback for Gingrich's ouster? Could we even be going back to 1984 when the Democrats used their congressional votes to overturn the election of a Republican congressman?

I'd love to have Bush take office and put power back in the hands of the people, including the power of RKBA. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. The next four years--no
matter who takes office--are going to be the most vicious in
this century. Both sides are on a path of mutually assured destruction.

So, my question to all the other political junkies out there is this: why? What other unstated reasons are there for the parties to stand in the way when by all good reason their best strategy would be to stand down?

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
It's the money and the power

Greetings,

These are not the Republicans and Democrats of days past. The rules have been bent so far now by Clinton that anything goes via executive order. Expect even further departure from the Constitution and the American Tradition of self-reliance and honesty no matter which shmoe ends up in the White House. The political money will flow most freely to whomever can make things happen for the contributing corporations, no matter how. There'll be less pretense of serving the American public, who don't matter to them.

It's the end of the world as we know it.

Regards.
 
Reasons for fighting

I believe that Gore's reason is pure, simple greed and an utter lack of ethics. He wants power, he is closer now than he will ever be. If he fails here he will never have an incumbency to bolster his appeal and he will fail on his own as miserably as he has in the past.

In Bush' case I would like to think that he is simply standing up for what is right, and perhaps unwilling to abandon us to a cheat like Gore. If Bush "bowed out to save us the agony of the fight", he would leave us alone with a morally bankrupt leadership for the next four years. Personally I hope he fights this to the bitter end; in the courts or in a sleeves-up bit of Texas whup-ass mano-a-mano if it came to it and Gore had the guts (not likely!)

I think history will record this as one of those times when the fight we fight today will be looked back on as far more important that we know today. Lets hope we win.
 
Good Post!

Correct, there is more going on. This clash has been coming since the 1960's. This is a culture clash of the largest scale. The Democrats have been pushing class warfare, promoting flexible morals and a socialist agenda. They have been moving us toward big government and one-world. Also there is now a great divide between rural and urban.

The Florida affair has finally made the Republicans face the music. They have been (FBI File) backing down to Clinton for years. They have been trying to win over the media. They now realize that they have screwed over this country in the process, by not standing for something. The stealing of the election is now seen as the stealing of this country. Democratic, in your face, politics is now in all of our faces. We have found the enemy and they are amoungst us. Hopefully, the Democrats have overplayed their hand. Hopefully, the public will wake up and flush the ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, N.Y. Times and the like.
 
My wife says......

The reason for all of the hatred and bitterness on the part of the Dems is that they are scared that all of their Politically Correct institutions will be no more if WE win.

They see George W Bush putting an end to all of the government sponsored immorality that has evolved under this administration.

Lets face it we all are looking for a lot of changes.
 
I'd agree with Ed's wife and add this to the mix:
Supreme Court nominees

The Dems don't trust/like/agree_with the legislative process because they can't completely control it every time (someone can always defect and/or not enough numerical support. So, they rule through the courts...witness tobacco, S&W, cities vs. gun industry, ad nauseum.

Witness FL right now...shopping around for friendly judges. Witness the state of the 2nd A...a courts' ruling stands if a higher court merely refuses to hear the case. Then put a bit of spin in the opinion and voila'. Control the Supreme Court, add activism and you rule (and I do mean rule in its most terrifying sense) the nation. That's the prize, kids...absolute control of the USA.
 
All good reasons, folks - I'll add another possible one.

The Dems may be fighting for the survival of their party.

I think back over the last eight years or so - Travelgate, Filegate, Chinagate, BuddistMonkgate, Monicagate, etc.

Have we gotten the real story on any of these? What if the real story got out? How devastating would it be?

The party holding the White House has a lot of power to keep things quiet. The Dems obviously think this is important enough to abandon their usual policy of incrementalism. They are playing a potentially dangerous game, so I think they believe the stakes are very high.

Gee, I can't believe the Dem Party likes Al Gore this much! :)
 
THIS is the reason.

The reason is Globalization.Look at the rest of the world.Most of the world is socialist.The portion that is not is composed of 3rd world countries that have been murdering each other for thousands of years over religious affiliation.

The United States of America is the last real bastion of freedom and capitalism left.We feed most of the world.Our dollars keep most of the socialist economies from collapsing.We are the police force for the world.

Starting about 30 years ago,the push began in ernest for a one world system.The UN,which is nothing without our dollars and our military superiority is nothing.The plan(with our most recent President at its forefront)is to 1)convert the U.S. to a socialist economy.2)set up a one-world government.3)"redistribute" the wealth of the U.S.to the rest of the world.

The rest of the world resents paying $4.50/gallon for gasoline while we pay $1.50.They resent the fact that a kid in the U.S. makes more money flipping burgers after school than most middle-class workers in the rest of the world.They resent the fact that the "poor" people in the U.S. drive around in automobiles,have decent housing,and 1 or more television sets.

Their goal will be accomplished.Our children are indoctrinated in school to be "members of the group" because individual achievement makes the others look bad.As soon as those of us who know what freedom is die off,it will be easy for them to set up the "new world order".

George Orwell was a very prophetic man.He saw how the world would end up almost a hundred years ago.

We can,and will,fight.Slowly but surely,we will be defeated. As we all have seen,nothing is an unacceptible method to be employed to achieve the desired goals.

All empires die,and ours will,too.I hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.I don't think it will.I will be one of the ones who dies defending his outmoded individualistic beliefs.The "will of the people will prevail".

God help us.
 
Supreme Court

I agree wiyh DC, the major prize is the Supreme Court, it will dictate our future for the next 30 years.........
This is why the all out warfare...........
 
Koolau 2 writes:
All good reasons, folks - I'll add another possible one.
The Dems may be fighting for the survival of their party.
I think back over the last eight years or so - Travelgate, Filegate, Chinagate, BuddistMonkgate, Monicagate, etc.
Have we gotten the real story on any of these? What if the real story got out? How devastating would it be?
The party holding the White House has a lot of power to keep things quiet. The Dems obviously think this is important enough to abandon their usual policy of incrementalism. They are playing a potentially dangerous game, so I think they believe the stakes are very high.
Click to expand...
Close to the truth, I think.

Al Gore is fighting to appoint the next Attorney General.

TB., NC
 
Live and let live

I agree ... something else has changed.

We have arrived at a very sad and perhaps dangerous stage ... we passed 'just politics' quite a while ago. Our problem is an anachronism - 'live and let live'.

Live and let live. What a concept. It was never perfect, but it was a foundation stone for this country. It was the daily expression of American freedom. I might not have liked the color you used for your front door, the dogs you kept, the money you made, the people you dated, or even your music. But your freedom to swing your fist ended at my nose. You stayed out of my life, and I stayed out of yours. And, we had a Constitution that helped protect each of our individual freedoms.

Today we have too damn many people who insist on coercing others, and forcing them into smaller and smaller boxes. People who allow that you have a right to defend your family, but not with 'that' type of gun. People who say a woman is free, but not if she becomes pregnant. People who will have a beer with you, but don't smoke 'that' type of cigarette. People who will 'let' you have a Boy Scout troop, but only if you admit the right people. People who are always looking for a few good laws to solve the problem du jour.

This constant coercion has become unacceptable. And, the volume of laws has become absurd. Such intrusion into private lives is developing into a political war.

Why? Because we won't leave each other alone. It is this accelerating intrusiveness that has raised the political stakes to desperate levels.

Government has become too 'relevant'. Too overbearing, too expensive, too punitive, too violent. The polarization of this country is accelerating, and it will come to no good end. It is time for all citizens to stop and think ... really think about what it means to be 'free' in America.

Live and let live. It was a great concept.

Regards from AZ
 
You folks are optimists.

All I see in our federal government is higher-class gang members fighting among themselves to see who gets to rape the victim first!

We, the People, lose either way. It's only a matter of losing more with Democrats than their fellow gang members - the Republicans.

Neither side is fighting for us - they are fighting out of greed and avarice.
 
Dennis, you and I have mildly disagreed on things in the past, but I'm inclined to agree with you now, and for this reason. _If_ Bush is elected, the only way he's going to be able to govern at all is to reach across party lines. That, of course, was one of his signature campaign lines, but he'll have to reach further than probably even he thought. He's going to have to cave on a host of isssues and, if the anti's get public sentiment behind them on any gun control bills, he's going to have to sign them. I've never thought that Bush would champion gun control, nor do I think he will as president. But he's going to be forced to back it, unless gun owners can keep the bills from getting to his desk. The onus, once again, will be on us.

BTW, have you noticed that there haven't been any school shootings lately? Do they only occur prior to the presidential primaries? Or have there been shootings, but the press didn't want Gore to make a statement about gun control? Hmmmm?

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
"All I see in our federal government is higher-class gang members fighting among themselves to see who gets to rape the victim first!" Dennis, that's a GREAT line! Mind if I use it in the future?

BTW, I couldn't agree with you more. If the Republicans were truly for freedom, they'd dismantle the monstrosity that they and the Democrats, at the impetus of the idiot, greedy electorate, created. But that's not going to happen. If the people craved freedom as much as they did getting their hands on others' money, we'd have a perfect country.
DAL

[Edited by DAL on 11-23-2000 at 11:04 PM]
 
After what Al and Bill have done while in the whitehouse over the last eight years, they know that if a Repub gets the whitehouse next, that Repub will uncover a lot of stuff that Al would rather keep under wraps. Al is fighting to keep himself and his friend, Bill, out of jail.
 
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