The Zero Tolerance lunacy continues

Oatka

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-12/08/185l-120899-idx.html

"Good Deed Gets Va. Teen Suspended Over Knife
By Liz Seymour
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 8, 1999; Page B01

A 13-year-old eighth-grader was suspended from a Loudoun County school in early October and must remain away from classes until Jan. 26 because he took a knife from a classmate and put it in his locker instead of turning it over to school officials.

Attorneys for the boy, Benjamin A. Ratner, argued before a School Board disciplinary panel yesterday that the policy governing the situation failed to take circumstances into account, but the panel upheld the suspension.

Benjamin said a female classmate brought the kitchen paring knife to Blue Ridge Middle School in Purcellville inside a black notebook binder and passed him a note suggesting that she might use the weapon to kill herself.

He said he persuaded the girl to give him the notebook containing the knife, which he never saw. He planned to bring the knife home to his mother, he said, so that she could show it to the girl's parents and talk to them about seeking help for their daughter.

"No one had my locker combination, so I knew it would be safe there," Benjamin told a disciplinary panel yesterday.

But the girl told two other friends what had happened, and they notified school officials. She and Benjamin were immediately suspended for 10 days.

Benjamin has been out of school since the Oct. 8 incident because school officials later ordered that he remain suspended until the end of January. School officials did not say whether the girl has returned to school.

The three-member disciplinary panel was unanimous in upholding Benjamin's suspension. Candyce P. Cassell, one of the School Board members who sits on the panel, said, "We have to send a message to all of the students that we're serious about their safety."

Because the ruling was unanimous, Benjamin's family cannot appeal to the full board.

Attorneys for Benjamin, who lives in Purcellville, concede that he violated the school's weapons policy.

"But the policy as written is wrong because it does not consider extenuating circumstances," said Steven H. Aden, chief litigation counsel for the Rutherford Institute, a civil liberties group based in Charlottesville. The group also is representing one of two Arlington County fifth-graders charged with felonies for allegedly putting soap in their teacher's drinking water.

"We're not saying he didn't have a knife, but when you disregard motive and intent, you have denied due process," Aden said. "You can be in possession of an instrument for an innocuous, good-faith reason."

The district's policy says that a student who uses or has possession of a weapon while under school supervision is subject to expulsion or long-term suspension.

"Considering the facts, four months out of school is really extreme," said Maria E. Selig, another Rutherford Institute lawyer who appeared before the panel on Benjamin's behalf.

No matter what his intentions were, school officials said, Benjamin should have immediately handed the weapon to a teacher or administrator for safekeeping. If he had, he would not have been punished.

"It was correct to take the knife from her," said Roberta W. Griffith, an assistant principal at Blue Ridge. "We applaud that and have told him so many times."

Benjamin's mother, Beth Haney, said she is fearful that her son, who has been diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and has worked hard to earn B's and C's in school, is falling behind academically because of the suspension. Teachers are making homework assignments for him, but in some courses, there has been a three- or four-week lag in getting assignments from teachers, Haney said.

But Edward J. Kiley, one of the three board members who upheld Benjamin's suspension, said he was "certain that the student is going to receive the academic assistance that he needs."

His mother is unsure. "I don't know what's going to change now," she said."

-- 30 --

The kid ought to be a poster child for home schooling.

Then this, from another board -- "This one is also a real doozy---A high school kid was skipping school and caught by a truant officer who took him to school. When he was brought inside they searched his backpack and found a pocketknife. And expelled him for the year for bringing a weapon to school. Duh, he wouldn't have except he was forcibly taken there. Sometimes I think common sense goes out the door. He was obviously wrong to skip school but I think it is once weak case to hit him with the weapon possession."

This country has lost it's collective mind.


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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
Zero tolerance = zero thinking.

It really is true. The IQ of the planet is a constant, the population is increasing.

CMOS
 
I think its time for some school board officials to be summarily executed.

These instances do not show kids that they are serious....they show kids that these people are insane and stupid and dimwits

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
"We have to send a message to all of the students that we're serious about their safety."

That is a lie!

The schools are serious about their authority and perhaps their personal safety. What they are teaching is unquestioned obeisance. They are denigrating thought, reason, fairness, justice and individual responsibility.

Where oh where is the blond lady in red shorts with the big hammer?
umm, no, the shorts didn't have the hammer...

Where oh where is the blond lady (in red shorts) who threw the hammer at the big screen?

Stick it to 'em! RKBA!


[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited December 09, 1999).]
 
There is an old theory biologists know that states 'phylogeny tends to recapitulate ontogeny'. That's just a high falootin' way to say that the growth of a genus or a society will mirror the growth or development of the individual. Those currently in power are creating nothing but automatons who will eventually give this nation a zero tolerant congress, court system, police system. It is as plain as day that that is the direction we are taking.
 
I have heard so many of these 'teacher as your God' tales now I wish I had started a collection of them. There was one on the radio yesterday about a kid who splashed mud puddle water on students and teachers. For that he was apparently detained and charged. (Haven't seen anything in print on it yet, tho.) From what I can tell the teaching 'profession' (hah!) seems to have a goodly number of sadistic control freaks in it. Makes you wonder how many of these 'experts' have ever sucessfully raised kids of their own...

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I am just curious what would happen if a student were to place a few bits of pot into another's locker or personal posessions...or into teacher's desk. Theoverreaction reminds me of the liberal use of Article 58 (treason) in the USSR...*anything* could be made to fit the broad definition.

Homeschooling for mine, should I ever have any kids. Lessons will include armed self-defense.

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Oleg, my cousin once got in VERY deep trouble over that sort of thing. He had put a cigarette in a kid's desk in high school. The next week, the kid put a bag of white powder measured about right into Rob's desk, and when caught Rob foolishly named the kid. Of course, that meant Rob got caught for the earlier prank. Dingus. Today in IL I imagine both would be suspended. Rob would probably catch more since the cigarette was real. I'm not sure what the point of that story was. :)
As for sending a message that they care about safety, they know better than to think anyone is fooled by that. Losers. One more place not to work for.
And placing something in teacher's desk? Too much trouble. It is much simpler to allege any kind of sexual impropriety. The child has only to convince people that you said something that a child would have taken as sexually suggestive to lose your job, and it doesn't take much to convince people. A good friend here at school was following the news from his hometown recently where a high school teacher with 15 years' experience was accused of molesting teenage boys on an overnight band trip. He was eventually cleared but he'll never teach again. He has publically stated that he can never force himself back into the classroom. All it took was the possibility.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Gee, and to think I went to school everyday with a knife hooked to my belt and a pack of smokes in my pocket. What a security threat I must have been when I helped those teachers by lending them my knife. I don't know about this Zero tolerance crap. Seems to me all it means is further harassment of good students so they can scare the 'bad' kids.
You guys hear about that other girl who got suspended from school for having a pocketknife, in a first aid kit, in the trunk of her car? Grade A thoughtlessness is running around but I think the worst part of that incident was that she was an honor student, and she agreed with the punishment?!?!? Cant quote her exactly but she said something along these lines to the media,
"Some times good people have to be punished to guarantee safety to the everyone."
Is it just me or has safety become a security blanket? I could be driving a hummer with a .50 gattling mounted on it and I'd still be looking around for a sniper to pick me off. I'm as safe as I can be but stuff happens. No one is totally safe.
A completely safe world would be a very sterile and boring place. It's ridiculous to push for safety by restricting our means to protect ourselves. I've heard multiple times things like, well knives kill people too are you going to ban knives?
From my point of view yes, if they are doing so well convincing people that guns are the main problem in society and they do manage to pull off their gun bans they will also move in on other things.

Just another prime example of how people avoid the real situation by punishing the innocent.


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Gun control isnt about guns, Its about control.
 
Since when is a kitchen paring knife a weapon?
I thought it was a kitchen paring knife.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
We, the people, are tired of being taxed, penalized, supervised, harassed,
and subjugated by a federal government which exceeds the powers
enumerated in the U.S. Constitution.
 
This is just another reason why you need to figure out a way to get your kids out of government schools. That's right, they're *government* schools. "Public schools" is too warm and fuzzy for the true reality.

Changing tacks (but related), there's a book that's been out for several years titled "The Death of Common Sense : How Law Is Suffocating America". This is just another example of that kind of (non)thinking.

JimR
JimR
 
Hah! All this reminds me of the time my big brother responded to a teacher's request for a pocketknife to cut something the class was working on by offering the knife he had just returned from Japan with, then when he saw the look on the teacher's face he slid it back in his pocket saying, "Uh, I don't think so." when the teacher now DEMANDED he hand it over. He got suspended for a week, but he kept the knife (don't ask me why).

This was around 1962, and this weird knife he had was a really skinny blade, like you'd find on a small penknife, but the blade was 6" long, in a regular (non-locking) folding knife. I'm saying, if you tried to use it as any kind of a weapon it would either fold up and cut your fingers off or break in two. It was OBVIOUS that it couldn't be used as a weapon, yet the stuff hit the fan anyhow.
 
Their policies and behavior clearly indicates that they (school admin/teachers) are idiots. They are the last people you would want looking out for your well being on in your business. Why any rational person would/should trust them is beyond me. That the girl had problems is obvious, that the school people are a source of help is a joke. The kid did the right thing in trying to keep it private and let the girls parents do thier jobs. No good deed goes un puninshed.

CMOS is correct, zero tolerance = zero thinking (or judgment. But then today's public schools aren't about teaching kids to think, it's about teaching them to conform. Thinking leads to questioning, and these clowns are clueless. DC is also right - time for summary executions, or at least lobotomies (oops, that clearly wouldn't make a difference - they don't think anyway, and based on their behavior, may be redundant). Yeah, getr rid of them and start over.
M2
 
We ought to have a zero tolerance policy for liberal socialists in our society. Too bad that would mean we would have to shut down our government schools. (or maybe it would be a good thing.)
 
As one government worker once said to me, "If the government shuts down I get to stay home and don't have to work. That's two freebies as opposed to just the normal one."
 
Earlier today I heard about a girl that got suspended for eleven days cause she had a pair of scissors in her backback. She had been using them over the Turkey Break for projects and forgot to take them out before returning to school.
Apparently she didn't get the max sentence, 180 days, because she went to the teacher and admitted that she had accidentally brought the "weapon" to school.
Just ridiculous!
I can understand the schools not wanting kids toting K-bars and guns, but jeez, when I started school I was REQUIRED to bring my own pair of skizzors. (And that was less than twenty years ago.)

Well, it'll just get worse.
I mean it, dang, those Number 2's could put an eye out!!!
:( -Kframe
 
Number 2 PENCILS. Not the other kind, jeez, get your head outta the gutter. :D
Well, I suppose the other No.2 could be a weapon too. Hmmmm. Outlaw restrooms?

You know, I went to high school with a kid that had his 2nd Degree Black Belt. (Sorry, don't remember which art.) He said that in the eyes of the law his body is classified as a deadly weapon.
I asked him to elaborate and he said that if I hit someone it would be regular old assault. But, if he hit someone he could be charged with ADW.
So, did that kid's attendance at school violate the weapons policy? Probably.
It's a crazy world. -Kframe
 
Kframe, that Black Belt scenario sounds fascinating. I wish I had a kid with any kind of degree that indicated his body was a weapon, and put those idiot administrators in a real spot.

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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
LOL that would be priceless. If I ever get the chance I'll get as much documentation as I can and bring that up at a staff meeting. Heh heh.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
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