The Window War

Guys,

While I admit I like the concept, do something besides smash windows. Paint 'em pink, whatever, but DO NOT smash windows.

If anybody started something like this, no "Sons of Liberty" reference will be made in the media. Ever. Bet on it.

Once upon a time, the Nazis broke the windows of every Jewish home and business in Germany, and that's what it will be compared to. The word you would hear is, "Krystallnacht." Over, and over, and over.

I trust you can see what the spin doctors could do with that?

Steve
 
Stephen, so we cower again because our methods would be "unpopular"?

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now joing the GOA!
 
Great story and I believe that it would get their attention.

As a starter, we could do is start a campaign of sending envelope after envelope to our representatives with nothing in them but the same statement "2nd Amendment - Shall not be Infringed" and include a tea bag (previously dipped in "ammonia", then dried) in each envelope. That should get their attention...and oh by the way, they couldn't use the tea bag either.


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To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state.

[This message has been edited by Elker_43 (edited May 17, 2000).]
 
Actually, to be frank, I believe we do cower. However, it seems simply too early to take to the streets, even in this relatively innocuous way - with the exception of the TRT and the SAS - those folks rock.

But, the anti-self defense movement is feeling its oats. It is pushing so hard now that many of us are coming out of the 'silent majority' to make our voices heard in support of the RKBA. It will take some clear line of demarcation to force some over that line. If Bush is elected this Fall, then perhaps this train will either slow, stop or reverse ... but even with a Republican, I'm not terribly optimistic.

From my perspective, CA has crossed the line already, with their confiscations and registrations. Everyone will have to make their own decision as to when we have been pushed too far. At that time, IMHO, creative, nonviolent protests such as that illustrated by this short story are the ticket. And, damn the media's spin ... whatever we do, whatever we say, they will brand us 'gun nuts', 'trigger heads', 'rednecks' and every other bigoted term they can muster. Most of the media are our enemies, and enemy propaganda is simply part of war - the AP, CBS and many others have made it clear they have no interest in the truth of this debate.

It would be interesting to brainstorm other such nonviolent protests techniques, but an open Internet forum may not be the best venue.

Regards from AZ
 
CMOS, nothing says we have to cower, just don't copy methods associated with the Nazis. The nicest thing I can say about Hitler is that he fought Stalin, and that makes him far the more evil of the two in the eyes of any true liberal.

Heck, get some gasoline and go write "NRA" in their front lawn for all I care. Forward their telephone lines to a 900 sex number. Do what you want to do.

I'm not saying be nice, as they certainly haven't and won't, just don't let them tie us into the Nazis.

On second thought, forget the 900 number thing. I'd hate to do have six days at $4.95 a minute on the White House phone bill. :D

Steve
 
Schmit--You're right, good read.

When the time comes, break the Repicrat and Demopublican party HQ windows. That is way more Sons of Liberty than it is Hitler.

If you break the windows of the poor and weak, that's Hitler-like. If you hurt innocent citizens, that's Hitler-like. If you merely break the windows of tyrants, that's way different. Got your back.
 
I know there are some attorneys on this board. Hypothetically, what sort of sentence or fine would accompany breaking a window or two on a public building?

Dick
 
California Penal Code section 594(b):

(b) (1) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is four hundred dollars ($400) or more, vandalism is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison or in a county jail not exceeding
one year, or by a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars
($10,000), or if the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is
ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or more, by a fine of not more than
fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), or by both that fine and
imprisonment.
(2) (A) If the amount of defacement, damage, or destruction is
less than four hundred dollars ($400), vandalism is punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by a fine of
not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine
and imprisonment.

That's _after_ your jury trial. If 500 people each picked up one rock . . . . Say, if the cards were played right, revolution might only be a misdemeanor. :D
 
A misdemeanor that is until it became a "hate crime" by executive order. Screw 'em, let's keep the glaziers gainfully employed.
 
Wanna do something!
Wanna do something real bad!

Tired of the hateful muggerhuggers! They make me angry with their constant attacks. They are impervious to reason. They ignore the facts. Hysteria rules.

But if we're going to do something symbolic, an action deliberately and specifically patriotic rather than destructive or dangerous would get my support.

We lose when we fail to counter the image that we are dangerous crazies frothing at the idea of havin' our own shootin' revolution. We should do our best to avoid helping them.

I begin to think that for this war we need more Ghandis than Rambos.

Bentley

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken,
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;
- If, Rudyard Kipling
 
Destruction of property (specifically of windows) is something I've had the joy (sarcastic) of discussing over, and over, and over ever since Seattle. It's a good way to get media attention real fast. You're also going to branded as vandels, have the media imply that you're just kids who don't really understand issues, and (in this case) have the media imply that you are trying to subvert or destroy democracy. (which is rediculous of course but that doesn't change the the majority of the public will believe it) You might also want to consider whether you want to make permenant enemies of these people by breaking their windows.

If you get into anything with threatening to go after people's homes (which the article implied) then you are setting yourself up for a lot more charges and are on more shakey moral ground (IMHO). You are (possibly) setting yourselves up to be charged with threatening and/or assaulting a public official. Also, if you enter the building after breaking the window you are committing B&E.

Watch that your action doesn't get out of hand. If it does and a crowd assembles, the crowd is ordered by police to disperse, and it doesn't do so then you can be charged with inciting a riot. This is an unlikely situation but possible.

Also, remember that what you are doing right now is conspiring to commit this act. That lets them tack on a couple of extra fines and/or jail time.

On the topic of jail solidarity (having enough people that they can't deal with you in the court system), it seems to have worked in DC for the A16 demos. All the people charged in DC court with had their charges dropped to a $5 jaywalking ticket (which is a traffic offense not a misdemeaner so it leaves no criminal record). There are extensive suggestions on how to do jail solidarity on the A16 web page. http://www.a16.org

My legal disclaimer: I don't advocate breaking the windows of any buildings. I don't think that going after political offices is a good idea. I don't agree pro-gun people on most issues. Please Mr. FBI man, don't charge me with conspiracy along with them. ;)
 
Folkbabe makes a good point. We don't have control of the media, and wanton destruction of private property isn't the answer. But "folkbabe" ain't in here to support ALL civil rights...just the ones she approves of.

The same nation that was outraged at the treatment of civil rights marchers in Selma and Birmingham in the sixties, completely bought into the government's, and the media's, version of what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Yet Vicki Weaver's murderer is a free man supported by our taxes, Janet Reno still lives off our tax dollars, and a lying, cheating, scumbag president was let off the hook with barely a slap on the wrist.

I would offer that for this war we need neither Ghandis, nor Rambos, but Patrick Henrys, Sam Adamses, and Ethan Allens. If pro-Constitution, pro-RKBA folks are not willing to let some thug enter their houses and harm their families, they sure as hell are not going to let some federal thug beat or kill them while singing "We Shall Overcome." Even if we did, does anyone seriously thing the federal government is going to restore the Constitution and consequently our protection under the 2nd Amendment? Sorry but if we get to the point that we're so outnumbered that we can do nothing but sing songs, we're screwed.
 
Chris,

You are right, if we can do nothing but sing songs, we are indeed screwed. At the moment things seem to be turning our way and symbolism is called for. I am concerned we choose useful symbols.

When the left misbehaves it gets a pass in the media. But Ruby Ridge and Waco are slow news at best because those victims defended themselves with guns. The Elian photo is news because no real resistance was offered.

What you may do in the extreme need not be reflected in your symbolic action. IMO We need civil disobedience, but we must emphasize the civil.

IMO we must also shoot for the heart, not the mind. They aint got none. The Million Murdered March, Rape Victims for Self Defense rallys, Redcoats (with toy muskets) leading bound Yankee prisoners with the message,"We let them take our guns." You know the kind of thing.

I would be willing to sing a few songs if it would save a few rounds.

Bentley

"All we are saa-aying,
Is hands off our rights.
All we are saa-aying,
Is hands off our guns!"
 
Still looks to me like we cower.

folkbabe may be a nice person, but remember ... she is a pacifist.

The media will paint you / us as mad dogs whatever we do. Think about it.

The next time there is a march / demonstration in your area, please attend. You'll enjoy it, even though you don't picture yourself as 'one of those people'.

Regards from AZ
 
Please refer to the windows war thread to better understand this post.

WINDOWS WARS IS ABOUT PRO-GUN CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, about throwing rocks through
Democratic party headquarters.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS NOR CONDONE IT AND I ACTIVALLY DISCOURAGE IT AND ADVISE AGAINST IT.

HOWEVER,I have come up with a legal alternative which may work nearly as well
and requires no sneaking around and no arrests and no vandelism.

Read on fellow patriots, and save the windows
for if things get like Canada.

Windows War Thread. http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=27404

THE LINK TO THE ORIGINAL SHORT STORY
WINDOWS WARS IS: http://www.best.com/~jwissick/windowwar.html

$$$ saved,$$$$ saved---no broken glass

just yet! :D

I have a couple of sugestions about the windows wars. Rather than go out and break glass instead we make little cardboard signs
from old cardboard boxes and staple them to telephone poles all over town.

The Second Ammendment shall no longer be infringed by democrats, vote for Bush, instead and vote libritarian for all offices
below president so that Bush cant pass any republican gun control either.

This will serve notice to all democrats and republicans that we are feed up with" People
Contol Gun Control."

Advantages: no damage is done and no laws are broken (except if it says post no notices
and you do anyways)and our message gets out to the people on the streets who do the voting and we are not antaganizing our worthless socialist legislators as they will be the last to know, only finding out when they loose the election.

NO FATE BUT THAT WHICH --"WE MAKE!"--
or that others force upon us when we are too lazy to get involved.

Hindsight....I could have, I should have...
I wish I had....but I din't want to bother
and now its too late and I'm s~rewed.

Please ,make a little effort NOW and prevent that from happening.

[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited June 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited June 14, 2000).]
 
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