The war on Americans who use drugs...

[VaultDweller]

[rant]

Let me start by stating that I think that the "War on Drugs" is one of the most monstrous policies the United States govenrnment has ever enforced.

The "War on drugs" has created the most profitable black market in history, funding organized criminals the world over from the punk gangs in every major US city to highly organized international criminal organizations, and even terrorist groups such as Al Qaida.

The "War on drugs" costs US taxpayers billions of dollars, yet is still completely ineffective. Drugs are still widely available and widely used. Name any city of over a million in the US and you can buy any illicit drug known to law there.

The "War on drugs" creates crimes which have no victims. If I were to grow marijuana in my house for my own private use can it be said that I am causing any more harm to society than I would if I were brewing my own beer? Sure, the use of marijuana may impair my judgement or my ability to operate machinery, but so can holding my breath for too long. I can be put into jail for years and have all of my worldly belongings stolen by the state just because I grow a plant that the government has decided is absolutely forbidden under all circumstances no matter what and don't even think about bringing it up in public debate.

Which brings me to another point. When was the last time you heard a prominent politician actually discuss the "War on drugs?" Sure, they are all too eager to say they are tough on drugs and propose policies to educate children as to how smoking marijuana is sure to turn them into murderous lunatics, and everyone likes to give their local police force some spiffy new gear for a "Narcotics Response Team" or something, but when is the last time you heard a polititian pledge to scale back the war on drugs? It's a non issue, it is simply policy and it is too taboo for anybody looking for votes to discuss.

Oh yeah, and do you know what the .gov took as precedent to model their fancy new federal drug laws after? The national firearms act of 1934. The NFA used tax laws to enforce a law that was not constitutionally kosher. They created a tax for all "evil assault weapons" and issued a very limited quantity of tax stamps, a.k.a. class III licenses. They just issued even fewer stamps for existing drugs and started outlawing new drugs as fast as a post-nuclear nation could invent them.

Anyways, that's my take on the story. I would be very interested if someone could prove to me that the effects of this "war" are worth the results. I find it hard to believe that mere taboo is responsible for this massive crime against humanity, but that seems to be the obvious conclusion.

[/rant over]

 

[stratus]

I would be very interested if someone could prove to me that the effects of this "war" are worth the results.

I can't prove that, because I basically agree that the war on drugs has become an political abstraction, and a colossal waste of taxpayer's money.

Doing away with drugs themselves should hardly be the point. If there's someone with a sugar bowl full of coke on his nightstand, at what point am I supposed to care? He's not hurting me. If he's hurting his wife or kids, that is a very different story, and the wife should be smart enough to make the call to get her and her kids out of the situation and put the guy in jail. Because he was hurting his family.

The law should do away with criminals whose addictions cause them to begin hurting others (either to get their fix, or because it alters their behavior patterns in such a way that they get malevolent). Get them off the streets. Anything else is just another tax put to questionable use.

 

[Weeg]

Sad thing is...If we really took up a war on drugs (IE: full capabilities used without restriction), then thin-skinned limp-wristies would whine about that


.

 

[BIGJACK]

Agree it is a wastefull project as is practically if not all "government" projects.:barf:
But, what would the results be if there were no "war on drugs?"
A druggie will eventually become a drain on the rest of society in one way or the other, either in a hospital or a prison.
I have never seen an alchoholic or other drug addict who did not claim to be able to "control" it.

 

[jacobtowne]

"A druggie will eventually become a drain on the rest of society in one way or the other, either in a hospital or a prison."

He will anyway, with or without the anti-drug laws. I suspect the drug that causes the most grief and expense in this country is alcohol.
There was no drug problem in this country before Big Brother got involved at the turn of the last century with the prohibition against opium (Yes, there were people with drug problems). Then came alcohol and the criminal empire that Prohibition created. Then marijuana, which at the time was listed in the United States Pharmacopaea (USP) as a medical botanical herb. Then cocaine.
It seems we're doomed to repeat our mistakes.
JT

 

[Crosshair]

One of the large issues are doctors who are pleading to have pot moved to a schedule 2 drug so it can be used for its medicinal qualities. BTW VaultDweller, it's not just big cities. I live in a town of 50,000 people and in High School I could get anything I wanted. I only did pot every now and then, wish I had tried the magic mushrooms when I had the chance. In college I used Vitamin-R, a classmate used Special-K, and almost everyone else was doing something, be it alcohol, cigarettes, pot, or other drugs. I basicly quit cold turkey when I saw how much it was messing me up.(The Vitamin-R was, not the pot.) I moved to a different college (across town )and have been clean ever since. Still wish I could get a joint without risking my whole life. The worse thing I ever did when I was on pot is eat too much and get a stomach ache. LEGALISE IT!!!

The Onion (A satire online newspaper.) has a great solution to the drug problem.
Drugs Now Legal If User Is Employed Very funny article.

 

[Redworm]

A druggie will eventually become a drain on the rest of society in one way or the other, either in a hospital or a prison.
I have never seen an alchoholic or other drug addict who did not claim to be able to "control" it.

So it's impossible to use any drug responsibly and without being a drain on society? Do you drink?

 

[model 25]

Well I might as well get in trouble here It's been so many years that this war has been fought that maybe a change is in order Maybe we should let those who are so weak as to have to have their drugs to get by have them.

Just maybe though society should have the right to change in such a manner that when those who get so hooked on the crap that they can't funtion and become a drain then they need to be deported with no chance of re-entry. We as a society have the right to say who is fit to live next to

This isn't the way I want it but if drugs are made legal we should develope a way to hold people accountable for their actions when they over do it.

25

 

[Redworm]

Drugs are already legal and people are already held accountable. Why do so many anti-drug folk refuse to admit that alcohol is a drug. Taking a shot of whiskey or chugging a beer or enjoying a glass of wine is no more or less "moral" or detrimental to society than sparking up a bowl of marijuana.

Any, any person who lectures about the evils of drugs while having a stocked liquor cabinet or drinks a six pack while watching a game is a flat out hypocrite (on this issue, at least).

 

[jacobtowne]

Forty years ago, a local cop left the force to join the Immigration Service. While home on leave one day, he told me that only 15% of smuggled drugs were interdicted, whilst 85% made it onto the street, and this at a cost of millions.
We now spend hundreds of millions, and guess what the interdiction rate is? Yup, still 15%.
Wouldn't it be better to de-criminalize the other drugs (other than alcohol), and use some of that money for education and treatment clinics?
JT

 

[Redworm]

Wouldn't it be better to de-criminalize the other drugs (other than alcohol), and use some of that money for education and treatment clinics?

That would make too much sense.

But of course everyone knows that if we legalize drugs we'll have to deal with street laden with homeless, unemployed druggies that used to be productive members of society. Doctors will be getting high during surgery, lawyers will be snorting coke before cross examining witnesses...

It's just how unrestricted gun ownership will result in mass murders across the nation and blood filled streets. Right?

 

[model 25]

Drugs are already legal and people are already held accountable. Why do so many anti-drug folk refuse to admit that alcohol is a drug. Taking a shot of whiskey or chugging a beer or enjoying a glass of wine is no more or less "moral" or detrimental to society than sparking up a bowl of marijuana.

Any, any person who lectures about the evils of drugs while having a stocked liquor cabinet or drinks a six pack while watching a game is a flat out hypocrite.

No lecture here , in my years I have seen so much death and destruction from alcohol (my dad was killed by a drunk driver when I was two) and drugs that I don't need to lecture anyone. Anyone who can see knows the outcome of such behavior.

Funny though, drugies seem to make it sound like responsible (oxymoron) drug use is possible. I have never seen those who drink that don't get drunk or dopers who don't get their mind screwed up. Should you have that choice? YEP ,but if you hurt people you should recieve the death penalty in my opinion and very quickly if you test for drugs or alchohol after you kill someone.

25

 

[Redworm]

I've also seen many horrible things due to the irresponsible use of drugs, both legal and illegal. In every single situation the individual was to blame, not the drug. A joint cannot make one lose their job nor can a beer cause a car accident any more than a gun can jump out a safe and shoot a child.

Blame the people that cause the problems, not the inanimate objects.

I have never seen those who drink that don't get drunk

I remember one guy on this forum claiming that while he drinks he has never in his life been drunk. You're right, people who drink will typically get drunk at least a few times in their lifetimes. But how is responsible drug use an oxymoron? What's irresponsible about a guy coming home and smoking a bowl while watching TV or having himself a little coke to stay up late and work on his garden? Who's to say that he's screwing up his mind? Who's to say that he shouldn't be allowed to chose between a possible long lasting negative health effects and releasing the extra creativity he wants to design himself a nice yard or write a book or play some music?


And in all honesty, it shouldn't matter whether or not that type of drug use fits your definition of "reponsible" or my own definition of it. Neither of us has the right to tell that person what to put in his body and if the people don't have that right then why does the government? Yes, if someone commits a crime while under the influence of any drug, including alcohol or any mind altering prescription drug (many of which are far, far, far more potent and addictive than almost anything you can buy on the street) then the punishment should be more severe.

But to persecute those who don't hurt anyone at all with their drug use is no different than persecuting gun owners who've never hurt anyone with their firearms.

 

[model 25]

Drugs are already legal and people are already held accountable. Why do so many anti-drug folk refuse to admit that alcohol is a drug. Taking a shot of whiskey or chugging a beer or enjoying a glass of wine is no more or less "moral" or detrimental to society than sparking up a bowl of marijuana.

Any, any person who lectures about the evils of drugs while having a stocked liquor cabinet or drinks a six pack while watching a game is a flat out hypocrite.

One thing about being in your fifties is that you know people are going to do what they want to and there is no stopping them. No I don't see the need to either but accountability is a big deal for those who can't be responsible. You want to do your coke or smoke your dope I don't care. You create a problem by the activity and you should have to pay.

The drunk that killed my dad died in the same crash so he got justice, but if he lived he should recieve the death penalty very quickly. Same with the dope, if you kill while stoned then you should die quickly.

25

 

[BIGJACK]

Redworm, I agree that alcohol is no different than other drug and NO I do not drink, been there done that --- many years ago, have never smoked a joint and I have never popped a pill not prescribed by my family doctor. Bought some pot for a girl friend I once had (man that stuff turned her on) Drank some before and while I was in the service(grew up during the times of Elvis, Mickey Gillie and Jerry Lee Lewis(personal friend) and in spite of Jimmy Swaggarts tounge lashings ) but finally grew up and put aside foolish things about 35 years ago and decided that I needed no "rubber" crutches to lean on. Still cannot look back and see where it did me one bit of good, had a lot of fun at the time though.

 

[Sulaco2]

^ So what the heck is your point, outside of typical child minded whinning about "Whaaa they won't let me play the way I want to!!" and what does it have to do with guns???

 

[Redworm]

You want to do your coke or smoke your dope I don't care. You create a problem by the activity and you should have to pay.

The drunk that killed my dad died in the same crash so he got justice, but if he lived he should recieve the death penalty very quickly. Same with the dope, if you kill while stoned then you should die quickly.

I completely agree. But those that have never hurt others should not be punished for commiting victimless crimes.

Still cannot look back and see where it did me one bit of good, had a lot of fun at the time though.

Having fun can't be considered a good thing? Sorry but the meaning of life for me is to enjoy it. As long as I don't hurt anyone else with my enjoyment, everything else comes second.

^ So what the heck is your point, outside of typical child minded whinning about "Whaaa they won't let me play the way I want to!!" and what does it have to do with guns???

Freedom and liberty are childish ideals akin to whining?

What does it have to do with guns? Plenty. For starters the war on drugs is yet another example of how prohibition causes more problems than it solves. It shows the ignorance of many who believe that legalization will cause massive spikes in drug usage and deaths while that logic is no more sound than thinking that allowing CCW in a particular state will mean the streets will run red with the blood of the innocents from all these new gun owners happily murdering their neighbors.

The other thing it has to do with guns is that - correct me if I'm wrong - everyone here believes very strongly in the second amendment. What's the point of a protected right to bear arms if it's not used to defend freedom and safety? Limiting someone else's freedom is the exact opposite of what the bill of rights stands for and what that lovely little amendment is supposed to protect.

To think that "I can have my guns because the Constitution says so!" while at the same time saying "I don't agree with your choices in life and thus you're not allowed to smoke/ingest what you want!" is hypocritical.

 

[BIGJACK]

REDWORM, I have had just as much fun sober as I ever had drunk or tipsy, and didn't suffer the hangovers the next day.
If one thinks he can't have fun without screwing uphis brain one simply is looking for a justification.

 

[Redworm]

So have I but that doesn't mean that I should be restricted from exploring that particular aspect of life. Of all things at least marijuana is completely, perfectly, 100% natural. No human process needs to intervene; animals often eat the stuff because of the effects. The queston that keeps poking me in the head is "If alcohol is legal, why is cannabis illegal?"

It makes no sense.

 

[stevelyn]

The so-called War on (some) Drugs has evolved to the point where it's too profitable to both govts and the producers for them to stop.
Unfortunately, the average citizen and our Constitutional rights are caught in the middle of a useless endeavor.
Can you imagine what would happen if drugs were suddenly decriminalized or legalized and the flow of money in both directions (govt<--->producers) stopped? There would be an economic collapse that would make 1929 look like a small downturn.

BTW, the 15% of drugs interdicted is pretty a pretty ambitous number. The real estimate is closer to 2-5%. Only enough is intercepted to make a few headlines.