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the use of machine guns in crimes
- Thread starter SJP
- Start date
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
The FBI can document NO use of a suppressed weapon in a crime in the US-neither a registered or nonregistered suppressed weapon.
One registered machine gun has been used in a murder since 1934. I was told it was stolen by a Chicago policeman.
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Byron Quick
One registered machine gun has been used in a murder since 1934. I was told it was stolen by a Chicago policeman.
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Byron Quick
Jeff Thomas
New member
Can't help you with the stat's, but I've heard the same. However, to clarify, I think the specific question is the number of 'legal' NFA weapons used in crimes. In that case, I have also heard only of an LEO who used one on his wife.
Now, I hear that illegal NFA weapons (specifically select fire) are rarely, but known to be used from time to time. Supposedly, a Chandler, AZ LEO was recently murdered with an SKS that had been converted to full auto. I heard that from a Gunsite instructor who is also an LEO.
Also, weren't the BG's in that infamous North Hollywood bank robbery using full auto?
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited December 23, 1999).]
Now, I hear that illegal NFA weapons (specifically select fire) are rarely, but known to be used from time to time. Supposedly, a Chandler, AZ LEO was recently murdered with an SKS that had been converted to full auto. I heard that from a Gunsite instructor who is also an LEO.
Also, weren't the BG's in that infamous North Hollywood bank robbery using full auto?
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited December 23, 1999).]
oberkommando
New member
There is a big difference between a registered ie tax stamped title 2 weapon and someone illegally converting. Only Title 2 weapon that I have heard of being used in a crime was I believe used in Miami by a LEO who was aproved to have it by his chief. MAC-10 I Believe. Class three is a dealer of title 2 guns.Far as i know.
12 out of 76,260 guns used in crimes traced by ATF are listed as machine guns.
These are the totals of the 27 cities used in the report.
Data from ATF website www.atf.treas.gov/core/firearms/ycgii/ycgii.htm
These are the totals of the 27 cities used in the report.
Data from ATF website www.atf.treas.gov/core/firearms/ycgii/ycgii.htm
I recall that a full-auto M16 was used to commit murder at Ruby Ridge and HK MP5s, M16s and M60s where used to commit mass murder at Waco. I am sure MG34, MG13, MP40, PPSh, AKM, etc. figured in even more crimes.
I only ask for a steady enough aim and enough range to drop an opponent with FA before I get it...
I only ask for a steady enough aim and enough range to drop an opponent with FA before I get it...
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
In BATF testimony before Congress in 1986 (?) during consideration of the bill to prohibit further production of new fully automatic weapons for sale to "civilians", it was stated that no legally-owned machine gun had been used in a crime.
I have read that it was the NRA who discovered the case of the murder of a woman by her police-officer husband, via use of a fully automatic weapon.
BATF testimony during the time of debate about "Brady" indicated some two or three percent of all gun crimes involved the use of the so-called "assault weapons".
Hope this helps, Art
I have read that it was the NRA who discovered the case of the murder of a woman by her police-officer husband, via use of a fully automatic weapon.
BATF testimony during the time of debate about "Brady" indicated some two or three percent of all gun crimes involved the use of the so-called "assault weapons".
Hope this helps, Art
I remember reading in one of Ayoob's columns about the use of a submachine gun (S&W 76?) AGAINST a few criminals who were attempting to rob the subgun owner's gunstore. You might also ask this rosie fan why the fathead does advertisements for one of the largest gun sellers in the U.S.
The vast majority of people depend on TV for most, if not all, of their knowledge on this and many other issues, and on this TV they see, with their own eyes, machine guns and suppressed handguns being used countless times in the commission of terrible crimes. I know that as voters and politicians they should be able to distinguish reality from fiction but the fact is that they cannot, so they truly believe these are critically important issues that have to be addressed.
BULL, You bring up an important point. Most people I've talked to have gotten literally all of thier information about guns from TV and movies. The problem is, that in thier minds, these are facts. This is the only reality they have, between the portrayal of guns in TV/Movies (guns are only used by criminals to murder people, guns are instruments of instant death that never run out of ammunition, etc) and the media screaming about semi-automatic this and that (to which the anti immediately pictures a full-auto UZI spraying bullets in every direction, killing babies).
I actually had a conversation with someone who are arguing about the dangers of drive-by shootings. I said "When was the last time you actually saw a drive by shooting?" to which I get the reply "Yesterday on TV." Absolutely no clue that TV is not real.
I actually had a conversation with someone who are arguing about the dangers of drive-by shootings. I said "When was the last time you actually saw a drive by shooting?" to which I get the reply "Yesterday on TV." Absolutely no clue that TV is not real.
And then WE wonder why some kids can't separate games from reality and shoot up schools as thought it's just another video game.
It's not the game, the guns, the magazine, the movie or whatever. It's the people.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited December 24, 1999).]
It's not the game, the guns, the magazine, the movie or whatever. It's the people.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited December 24, 1999).]
For crimes committed with legally registered C3 weapons, there was the cop using the agency weapon for a 'hit', but I think it was Detroit, not Chicago. There was also a suicide in Tennessee in the late 60's or early 70's, but ATF does not have a record on file, just the memories of a retired agent who remembers it happening.
Here's a good page on crime with machine guns:
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html
Most of the general public does not know the difference between FA and SA, and the media hae done their best to confuse the public further. I doubt Rosie knows a handgun from a shotgun, she just collects money from Handgun Control and runs her mouth.
With "documentary" TV presentations like the Discovery Channel's story of Bonnie and Clyde showing AK47's and SKS's, the public becomes even more confused.
A couple of years ago, the Governor of Maryland railed about "drive by" shootings (there had been some in Baltimore and Washington) and cited bayonet attachments as being one thing he wanted banned. The last bayonetting in Maryland was in 1864, but emotion is the name of the anti's game, not facts.
One newspaper columnist, arguing for the closing of a local range, told his readers that "sporting" arms were OK, but that those "super powerful assault rifles" would shoot right through the three mile thick hill that backstops the range.
Lies are the stock in trade of the media, on every subject, in every case, on every day.
Jim
With "documentary" TV presentations like the Discovery Channel's story of Bonnie and Clyde showing AK47's and SKS's, the public becomes even more confused.
A couple of years ago, the Governor of Maryland railed about "drive by" shootings (there had been some in Baltimore and Washington) and cited bayonet attachments as being one thing he wanted banned. The last bayonetting in Maryland was in 1864, but emotion is the name of the anti's game, not facts.
One newspaper columnist, arguing for the closing of a local range, told his readers that "sporting" arms were OK, but that those "super powerful assault rifles" would shoot right through the three mile thick hill that backstops the range.
Lies are the stock in trade of the media, on every subject, in every case, on every day.
Jim