The UK is really going down the tubes (Thought Police)

Oatka

New member
This is off-topic, but good God, look how far they've descended. Was George Orwell perceptive, or what?
http://www.suntimes.com/output/osullivan/osul28.html

In case of crime, round up the usual racists

March 28, 2000

BY JOHN O'SULLIVAN

My attention was caught by a small item in the British press: Police in Gloucester are cracking down on racism by entering restaurants in disguise to listen for racist conversation.

In the first week of "Operation Napkin," one man was arrested for racially aggravated harassment. Another was overheard mimicking an Indian waiter, but the police decided that his behavior did not warrant prosecution.

"Goodness me," said a friend. "Isn't Fawlty Towers near Gloucester?"

One imagines the scene in court as Detective Inspector Plod gives evidence: "M'Lud, Constable Snoop and I entered Mr. Basil Fawlty's establishment at precisely 01.00 hours in deep cover. It was almost empty and, after waiting 20 minutes, we were shown to a table. While perusing the menu, Constable Snoop observed the waiter mimicking a Spanish person in a stereotypical fashion, jabbering in broken English and behaving excitably.

Upon further investigation, it was determined that said waiter, one Manuel, was in fact Spanish and that, in the words of the Race Relations Handbook, `He was expressing his cultural authenticity.'

"We then caught Mr. Fawlty's eye with the intention of ordering lunch. We had assumed the personae of German tourists and were clad in Tyrolean leather briefs, embroidered suspenders and feathered trilbys.

I am happy to report, however, that Mr. Fawlty put us entirely at our ease by repeatedly assuring us that he would not mention the Second World War. Thus far an absence of racism, ethnocentrism and xenophobia of which Gloucester can be proud.

But we decided on a final test. Observing that one couple had been unable to obtain any food or drink despite frantic signaling, I sought to establish whether they were members of a minority suffering discrimination by asking if they were pure-bred Anglo-Saxons.

The gentleman seemed to take offense at this and left muttering about Nazis. He returned some minutes later in the company of Police Constable Bumble and accused me of racist conversation, contrary to Section 3, Clause 2 of the Act.

"Constable Bumble failed to pierce our Tyrolean disguise, and he tried to arrest us in German--a language neither Constable Snoop nor I speak. In the ensuing fracas harsh words were exchanged--but in a commendably multicultural context.

In light of the extenuating circumstance that the Gloucester police force has agreed to pay full compensation for any assault or damage, I plead not guilty or, alternatively, guilty of conducting an official investigation while the balance of mind was disturbed."

Heigh-ho. But is there not something sinister as well as comic in the idea of Constables Snoop and Bumble going about in plain clothes to listen in on private conversations? The British used to have a lively sense that such practices had no place in a free society.

George Orwell was less certain. In 1984 he foresaw an England in which the most serious crimes would not be rape or robbery but "thought-crimes." And the evidence for thought-crimes has to be sought in the nearest equivalent to thoughts: private conversations.

Such intrusive policing in America as well as England is commonly justified by two arguments: First, that bad thoughts, like ethnic stereotyping, lead to criminal acts; and second, that certain bad thoughts--notably racism but also sexism and homophobia--are dispersed throughout the community and must be vigilantly repressed if we are not to return to Jim Crow.

Neither argument holds water. Stereotypes tell broad truths about a group; comic stereotypes provide harmless amusement, and if hostile stereotypes sometimes stimulate a crime, the remedy is to punish the crime--not the thought. Besides, survey evidence shows that most Americans are tolerant traditionalists who believe that there are such things as group qualities, that not everyone in a group shares them, and hey, that it's their life anyway.

Why then do the intellectual and political classes cling so firmly to the superstition that the American people are racist, sexist, homophobic and a danger to one another?

As Paul Gottfried points out in his brilliant new book, After Liberalism: Mass Democracy in the Managerial State, it serves to justify increasing their power. If the people are corrupt, then they have the right and duty to reshape them psychologically for democracy, to pry into their souls, and to eradicate political sin. Last year, an official British report even proposed criminalizing racist remarks made in the family home.

Politicians and intellectuals also wield an even more significant power--that of defining racism. In recent years it has been defined very broadly to cover such ideas as meritocracy, individual rather than group rights, and even lower taxes. Where might this end?

"Mr. Plod, my boy tells me that the father of a school friend does a very passable imitation of Eddie Murphy. Sounds to me like a case for Scotland Yard."



------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
I spend a lot of time in the UK with my work, so I'm usually abreast of developments over there, and as with most things, they are rarely just what they first appear.

Operation Napkin was specifically targetted at Indian restaurants. As the British drink licensing laws tip everyone out of the pubs at the same time 10.40 or 11.10 pm depending on the day, and as it is something of a tradition to eat the hottest spiciest Indian curry an individual can manage after having consumed upto 10 pints of their favorite beer, this usually leads to some ugly drunken scenes in the Indian restaurants that cater for this passing trade. The Gloucester police have responded to complaints of aggravated racial harassment by these local rednecks by planting undercover officers in selected Indian restaurants at, or around, "chucking out time" in order to identify and if necessary arrest the culprits. For anyone here in the US who can't get their head around this, the literal equivalent is Johnny Six Pack and all his Ford F150 buddies arriving in McDonalds sluiced upto the eyeballs each and every Saturday night at precisely 11.10 pm and asking a young black counter assistant to "give us some burgers you stinking n*****" not quite the comedy equivalent of John Cleese's immortal "I'm sorry he's from Barcelona" line. To suggest that a police officer who was lying in wait for such a regular event is acting in an Orwellian fashion is a gross over simplification of a very common and particularly nasty manifestation of drink related behaviour in the UK, rest assured that other police forces are watching the progress of Gloucester with great interest.

The Scarman report did indeed recommend that there be a new offence of using racist language in the home, this was overruled by the British Home Office (State Department) as it was classed as unworkable (i.e. crazy), and was clearly an ill judged reaction to the clandestine video footage of
the main suspects using racist language in their own homes.

I am unaware of any ban on pellet firing guns in the UK, perhaps I'm behind the times on this one but I don't think so. A firearms license is required for one in Northern Ireland but that has been the case for a while, surprise surprise, as those people will use anything from a fork upwards to inflict bodily harm on each other, so much for that loveable Irish romanticism.

A rough summary of UK gun law is thus :

All handguns centerfire and rimfire banned following the Dunblane school massacre (why is it always a school ?)
Semi auto rifles (except .22 I think) banned, for example they use versions of the mini 14 and AR series that must be cocked prior to each shot.
Lead shot banned for the hunting of wetland birds, bismuth or tungsten only.
Blackpowder revolvers are legal.
Airguns legal but restricted to 12 ft lbs of energy (I think) otherwise they require a full firearms licence.
All replica and blank firing guns legal.

If you really want to talk about something silly in the UK, take a look at the way they are dealing with illegal immigrants who are claiming political asylum over there.

Mike H
 
This is from last week:

More British Gun Rules Backed

LONDON (AP) -- A cross-party committee of lawmakers recommended Thursday that Britain further tighten its gun laws to make airguns subject to the same restrictions as other weapons and prohibit children under 14 from handling all firearms.
....
Britain has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Handguns were banned after a gunman shot and killed 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in Dunblane, Scotland,in 1996.
....
An estimated 4 million airguns are in circulation around Britain, accounting for 70 percent of the firearms held legally, the report said.

Figures for 1998-99 showed that nearly two-thirds of all recorded firearms offenses were linked to air weapons, according to the report. Most of those offenses involved criminal damage, but nearly 2,000 also involved injuries to people, it said.
....
But John Hoare, secretary of the National Small Bore Rifle Association, said the proposed regulations will hit ''those who are law-abiding and cause no mischief, damage or injury to anyone.''

''They will not affect criminals,'' he said.

The recommendations also failed to please the antigun lobby. The Gun Control Network criticized the report as not going far enough, saying it would ''do little to discourage future generations of shooters.''
[End of quote]

How can a nation afford to "discourage future generations of shooters"?

And as far as this:

"A firearms license is required for one in Northern Ireland but that has been the case for a while, surprise surprise, as those people will use anything from a fork upwards to inflict bodily harm on each other, so much for that loveable Irish romanticism."

All I can say is: Surprise, surprise, firearms laws don't seem to have done much for Northern Ireland except keep law-abiding people from defending themselves. I guess they'll have to ban forks.

Sheesh.
 
Mike H - thanks for the clarification -- I guess the papers over there are as bad as here when it comes to oversimplification.
 
I got the impression that first piece was American, just using the British practice as an example.
And by the way, that article about the airguns backs Mike H up. It says some committee recommended the new law, not that it passed.

Now that I've defended Mike--here's what I think:
1) Just what does "his Ford F150 friends" mean? Sounds like your own bias. I have a lot of good friends who drive large pickup trucks and they're pretty good folks.
2) Is there any provision for the eavesdropping cops to arrest people who say things like "those people will use anything from a fork upwards to inflict bodily harm on each other, so much for that loveable Irish romanticism?"
3) In the U.S., you can't be arrested, to my knowledge, for addressing a black man as "n*****." Same for calling anyone any racial slur. That's the way it should be, in my opinion. So it's not the same thing as your redneck and his friends, because those guys might be refused service or even asked to leave, but as long as they didn't hurt anyone they wouldn't be arrested.
4) I do appreciate the difference between a proposed law and a passed law, but frankly if the proposal to ban certain kinds of speech in your own home was actually dismissed because, as you say, it was "unworkable," that doesn't make me feel much better. That's ridiculous. The law should have been canked because it was a horribly oppressive and tyrannical thing to do, not because they'd like to be tyrannical but didn't think it was practical.
 
Today it's England. Tomorrow...? Why is it I don't feel like laughing?

--slabsides

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
The original article mentioned that they were listening for "racist conversation." That's not necessarily the same as direct, intentional abuse. I don't like racist behavior m'self, but I'll defend it, so long as it's not directly attacking anyone.

The "Johnny Sixpack and his F-150 Buddies" comment IS a generalization in its own right. So long as the detractors of racism are elitest in their own regards, no one will ever take their remarks seriously.

(So it is that I consider this evening; will I take my Ford pickup for a 6-pack of Spaten Optimator, or of Belhaven St. Andrews Scottish Ale? Certainly I shall not be eating at Micky D's nor getting blitzed, nor oppressing others with my speech.)
 
The Gun Control Network criticized the report as not going far enough, saying it would ''do little to discourage future generations of shooters.''

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we're ONE GENERATION from the death of the "gun culture". If we don't stop this assault, NOW, the next generation of kids will only see guns in glass cases.

I have said time and time again that the ULTIMATE goal of the anti's is NOT just the banning of firearms. It's the ELIMINATION of the culture and heritage of shooting in this country. Now someone in England has actually STATED this goal in PLAIN LANGUAGE.

Heard enough? Stop the anti's NOW, THIS YEAR, or you can kiss the gun culture goodbye. No more hunting of trap shooting with the kids/grandkids. No handing down of precious heirlooms to future generations. (For proof, see Oz...)
 
My apologies to the F150 owners club, as a committed Chevy driver, call it the devil in me, Fix Or Repair Daily as we call them where I come from. How about substituting "Johnny Red Neck and his generic non-type specific SUV".

As for Ireland - are you seriously proposing that free availability of firearms should be a right. As a solution to crime here in the US, I'm there shoulder to shoulder with you, but where bigotry based civil war and terrorism is (or hopefully was)a way of life, a gun shop on every corner with no licensing requirements isn't really a very smart proposal. As for the loveable Irish romaticism "slur", have you ever been to N.I., well I have, and there is nothing loveable or romantic about anything there, or more specifically the way the Protestants and Catholics regard each other, if that pigeon holes me as some kind of elitist or worse then so be it. I was there 3 weeks after members of a religious parade dragged 2 young British soldiers from their car after they took a wrong turn while touring the sights. They took them to a nearby rubbish dump, stripped them naked, beat them bloody and then finished them with shots to the head from the soldiers single Browning HP, a weapon the soldiers could have used on the crowd but chose not to, for what reasons we will never know. You might say this incident colored my opinion of the place and its people.

Thanks for pointing out that the parliamentary review body on firearms has only recommended tightening controls on air rifles and pistols. That would only introduce the requirement for a firearms licence anyway, and while this is ludicrous, it hardly constitutes a complete ban. You may be amused to know that the Gun Control Network (like GCI) found places on the review committee by virtue of saying they had a national membership, when later questioned on this, they confessed to having a "database" of exactly 7 members. Pity the British didn't check this first.

Finally, I believe the use of racist language in Britain is classed as the offence of Inciting Racial Hatred. Do I agree with this, in short no, free speech forever, I do however believe that its use at Mickey D's in the manner mentioned previously should warrant arrest on the grounds of using threatening behaviour or the such like. But if I inadvertantly use a racial slur whilst talking with a friend, I believe that however inappropriate for me to do so, it is my, and your right to do so.

Mike H
 
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