The state will keep you safe

rod

New member
THE G8 AND SMALL ARMS (from the Project Ploughshares web site)

Ploughshares Monitor, June 1998

 The focus of the G8 is on illicit weapons, but any definition of illicit
weapons requires the identification of those weapons that are licit - that are
legally owned and operated by civilians.

While small arms are widely understood to threaten individuals and societies,
they aren't about to be eliminated. Instead, current governmental initiatives
tend to focus on controlling access to small arms, and, to a much lesser
degree, reducing demand. Controlling access involves limiting their
availability
and restricting the conditions under which small arms possession and use are
permitted, whether for personal or public purposes. Reducing demand obviously
involves measures to create the kinds of stable social and political
conditions
in which the perceived need for weapons is reduced. Questions of access and
demand are equally relevant to both the private and public, or personal and
official, contexts. While one might assume that legal private or personal
use is
generally confined to sporting use, including hunting (there is a tiny
fraction
of hunters for whom gun use is not sport but basic livelihood), a significant
element of the demand for small arms relates to planned use for personal
protection and security. Public and official uses, by military, police and
other
publicly regulated security forces, are obviously focused on security
concerns.

The distinction between personal and public uses of small arms runs headlong
into fundamental social and moral questions about where the boundaries between
individual and collective responsibility ought to be drawn. The claim that
there is a legitimate private use for weapons for personal security reasons
carries within it significant assumptions about the boundaries of personal and
public responsibility. While the evidence suggests that privately acquired
guns
are in fact rarely used for protection or security, even to allow such use in
theory and thus to place on individuals (whether they be suburbanites in Los
Angeles or Tapoza cattle herders in Kenya) a major responsibility to arrange
for their own security, speaks volumes about the assumed limits of private and
collective responsibility.

Putting responsibility for individual and family safety and security in
private
hands radically narrows the arena of public responsibility, and in the process
reduces confidence in (and funding for) public security institutions.
Regulations to limit private gun ownership and use, accompanied by credible
support for public security institutions, are central to defining public
responsibility and the nature and character of the public social order. To
prohibit the possession and use of guns for personal security would obviously
and unambiguously expand the definition of the public domain and public
responsibility to include care for the security of individuals and would
withdraw from the domain of personal responsibility the threat or use of
lethal
force for personal and family security reasons.

In other words, the nature and boundaries of personal and public
responsibility
are central to the debate over small arms control and appropriate limits on
individual access to guns. This is a debate in which civil society
organizations, including religious communities, have a special responsibility
and a special contribution to make in support of collective care for the
security of individuals.
 
Rod,
If you were a firefighter, you'd be the one who puts out fires with gasoline. :)

(I know, I know, "Know your enemy..." etc. Sun Tzu lives...)

Identifying ANY illicit arm does NOT require defining licit firearms. We could outlaw personal ownership of ballistic missiles, SAMs, and anthrax without talking about "ugly" features on rifles.

Small arms are not the threat, BGs are.

And so on. Not much to agree with here. What part of "... shall not be infringed" don't these guys understand. Phooeey.

Unite.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 01-13-99).]
 
(*Blush* Thse comments were written when I thought Rob believed that stuff !! see my additional post below)


Somehow, I just knew that post wasn't going to be about Vermont...

Anyway.. listen, Rod, You a real mastery of big words and seem to either have really thought that out or learned how to cut & paste very successfully. Either way, who is supposed to determine "..character of the public social order" ?

Since the day people fell out of the trees and agreed not to hit one another and steal each other's stuff (commonly referred to as "social contract"), there has always been someone to hit the other guy and steal his stuff. That is the nature of man. Some don't like the social contract, some don't understand it. Until you change that fact, people need to be able to defend themselves. Either from the individual wanting to take your stuff or from the state trying to develop the proper public social order.
Perhaps if the UN proposed that no organized unit of people, be it Governments, Corporations, Churches or any other group could own any weapon of any kind, and then they got every group on the planet to sign on and every weapon was either destroyed or sold to an individual.. perhaps then we would be on the road to freedom and social order.
Until then, I'll keep my gun, you keep your thesarus.

------------------
-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-18-99).]
 
Sorry guys I guess I should have added my own comments to this piece.

I DON'T ADVOCATE WHAT THESE HALF-WITS ARE SAYING!

I put this up here as an example of the collectivist disarmament crap that the UN is currently spewing. This article is lifted from the Plowshares project and expresses their inane views on how the collective (Hillary's village) should preempt any attempt at individual self protection (arguably one of the most basic tenets of all living things).

These people obviously feel very threatened by anyone who thinks for themselves or would act on their own behalf in a violent confrontation.

=rod=
 
WHEW! I am glad I read all the posts at one time. If I had only read Rods first one, I would not have slept. The idea that someone one TFL could subscribe to that drivel (rhymes with snivel :) don't you know) gives me severe indigestation.

I know, "open minds provide fertile ground", like I have been told. However I am closed minded on the issue of firearm ownership. Everyone who is alive should be allowed to have one, even violent felons. Hey, they will run into one of us who is willing to shoot back.

Rod - Glad to read your second post!! My stomach is settled.

------------------
Freedom is not Free
 
Rod,

I noticed "Project Plowshares" and figured:
1) You posted this for our info and comments.
2) I figured you were too angry to trust yourself to comment at the time! (heh, heh) I'll just bet you were talking to yourself as you typed your post, right? :)

Of course, (in my best Clinton imitation) that never happens to me (blush).
-------
Unite!
 
Well, ain't that a pickle! (I was in Alabam for the last four days and heard many such comments.. ;))

In that case, someone please forward my initial comments to anyone who does subscribe to that crap!

Thanks for the heads-up Rod and sorry about the response being directed to you!!



------------------
-Essayons
 
The US Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no responsibility for protecting individuals and incur no liability for failure to do so...even if they watch it happen. The police's purview in the eyes of the Supreme Court is to protect the "public."

Kinda kicks the Plowshares' boys argument in the teeth, doesn't it? There are only three legitimate government functions. The Supreme Court has ruled that the government is under no compulsion to perform one of these.
 
Spartacus, thanks for that additional observation. I reread Rod's original 'Ploughshares Monitor' post. The logic is more contorted and immoral than I first noticed. Their main thrust actually seems to be that we must limit the self-defense rights of each individual so that we can increase the power, and funding, of the state. This is essentially the same logic that public school supporters use - damn the kids, we must hinder the development of public school alternatives so that public schools continue to receive increased funding.

The restriction of freedoms should always be regarded as a red flag of danger.
 
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