The revolver theory: one round is loaded

H

HighValleyRanch

New member
I understand this concept of it only takes one round to be loaded as advocated by well respected revolver teachers like Grant Cunningham.
But help me to understand WHEN this is applicable in the real world.

Seems like one is not likely to stand toe to toe and load one round.
So if you are in cover, doesn't it make more sense to fully load unless the bad guy is rushing you?

So you've shot all your rounds, and only load one when.....
(finish the sentence)
 
Weird things happen, a lot. Just don't decide not to do something ahead of time because when the bad clowns come it may be time for everything.
 
Never heard of such theory. But...

I will load only one if the attacker is charging at me.

This is not without risk. When the cylinder is closed, the position of the loaded round should be the next round to index up, or you will have to pull the trigger many more times to fire.

-TL
 
I understand this concept of it only takes one round to be loaded as advocated by well respected revolver teachers like Grant Cunningham.
But help me to understand WHEN this is applicable in the real world.
Click to expand...

I heard or read from Michael DeBethancourt, (his site, or one of his youtube videos, I forget which), getting the last (fifth) round loaded from a speed strip will take fully 50% of your loading time if you attempt it. Better to get back into the fray with an incompletly loaded cylinder. He was justifying his recommended way of loading speed strips -- four rounds, two and two, for better control.

Obviously not applicable to the use of speed loaders.
 
In the era before speedloaders, one would train with his revolver of choice, Colt or Smith and KNOW, automatically and reflexively, which chamber was next up if he only had time to load one round.
The 3x2 pouch was considered a great advance in ammo supply.
 
Like many, you are mistaking TV for reality.
The hasty reload of a revolver with one or two rounds was once a part of serious gun handling.
 
When you run out, reload if possible. Try reloading all the way.

If you can't reload all the way, get the gun back on target and shoot. It would be a good idea to practice partial reloads, where you can turn the cylinder to index the rounds properly when the trigger is pulled. Probably a hell of a lot harder to do under stress.

This is one reason why they invented J-frames, and the New York reload. :cool:
 
First, let me admit that I have never been in a gun fight and at my age now, never expect to be. But when I was a LEO, carrying either a Model 19 or a Model 36, I seldom worried about reloading, though I practiced it and carried 1 (Model 36) or two (Model 19) speedloaders. It seems to me that in self defense carry the need to reload would be pretty darned uncommon. I read about people who carry a 17 round pistol and 5 or 6 extra magazines, but IMHO, that is plain silly, not to mention heavy.

It would be interesting to hear about real world situations (not made up "scenarios") in which an armed citizen had to fire all the rounds in his gun and reload while under fire. Remember, no rumors or fiction, no range games - actual self defense cases only, please.

Jim
 
There are some cool revolvers out there, I'll give you that. The issue described above, and the Dirty Harry "5 shots or 6" problem without any overt signaling that you're out of rounds is an issue when push comes to shove, ... I'll take a 17-20 round semi any day.
 
The (new) Lone Ranger can load one round in an SA, spin the cylinder, AND have it come up under the hammer when he cocks the gun.

But then, he is Spirit Walker...

I'm not.

If you're down to you last round, or you're caught flatfooted in the middle of a reload, (DA revolver) and need to shoot now, close the gun and pull the trigger until it fires.

If you have the ingrained memory of which way your cylinder turns, it would be a good thing to put the round(s) where it will come up next, if you have the presence of mind to remember.

I don't think I would...
 
I tried looking, but could not find the exact place I thought I ready that from Grant Cunningham, but found a couple of place where Michael Bethancourt used a 2 round drill in his revolver classes.
The thought being that at any time during ANY reload, you might need to close the cylinder and be ready to fire and to let go of the idea that a loaded gun is ONLY when fully loaded. There was a thread on the highroad about this as well.

Jim, heard of the 2x2x2 pouches, but not the 2 x 3 pouch.
Also been practice grabbing two rounds out of a loop holder for double insertion on reload, and of course 2 rounds from a speed strip.
Also worked today on three various reload techniques: Cunningham's universal (which is like the FBI), Ayoob's stress reload, and Bethancourt's reload keeping the strong hand grip on the gun, which in the early parts is similar to the stress reload, but doesn't shift the hand as in Ayoob's method.

Found that even with a loose round in the rear pocket, a single reload can almost be as fast as a speed loader. If you try this, it can't be the apples and oranges comparison where you have the speed loader in a pouch on your belt open, because that's not going to be how you actually conceal carry one. Try both in your pockets and see how they compare.

So what might be evident is that the single round reload might be viable in a worst case situation having to get the gun back in action quickly.

Again, as pointed out in statistics, a reload is not the usual case , but practicing it hurt anything as long as we keep it realistic.

Also Bethancourt advises to put the rounds in various holes, not two simultaneous holes. The reasoning being that you should not index, but close the cylinder and start pulling the trigger. That way, at least one round will be within a couple of pulls away from being fired.I see the reasoning, but not the point, since the 2x pouch and the speed strip both encourage rounds in adjacent holes.

On the single round reload, I go back and forth whether it's better to index or just close and pull the trigger until it goes off?

Yes, my brother was in a shootout as a LEO. He had a SW .357.
Got off five rounds, skipped one with a short stroke they think.
He said he could not remember how many he shot.
He came out on the better end of the deal, nuff said.
Any no, he did not reload. I'll have to ask him if he reloaded afterwards.

Perhaps I was mistaken in my original post that they (Cunningham and Bethancourt) were advocating only reloading one round, but instead advocating practicing reloading one or two rounds as a drill for immediate recovery.
 
It just makes more sence to carry at least two revolvers with as many speed loaders as you like and practice using speed loaders. My revolver coat is set up for two and I IWB one. I have four reloader for my primary guns and two for my back up so I should not need to reload.
 
Wow Hartcreek. What are you worried about? I'm lucky to have a single revolver with a single load. Never had to fire a shot. Never had to reload except when I am at the range. Your situation sounds heavy and uncomfortable unless you're going into battle.
 
Hartcreek
If you feel the need to carry all that armament, I suggest you find somewhere else to live. It sounds like you would be a great deal safer, on a daily basis, either in Bedford Stuyvestant in Brooklyn, or Spanish Harlem in NYC. Crime rates there are way down.
 
Hi, HighValleyRanch,

Your brother's experience was as an LEO, not as an armed citizen. Different ball game, different rules.

Jim
 
It would be interesting to hear about real world situations (not made up "scenarios") in which an armed citizen had to fire all the rounds in his gun and reload while under fire. Remember, no rumors or fiction, no range games - actual self defense cases only, please.
Click to expand...

I've also said this many times, and the only reponses were about LEO's. I agree, totally different.

LEO - other guy is trying to get away.

Self Defense - I'm trying to get away.
 
It dates back to the Newhall, CA incident. Four California Highway Patrol Officers were killed by 2 bad guys in less than 5 minutes. One officer who was behind cover reloading was charged by one of the BGs. The BG reached over the trunk of the patrol car and killed the officer point blank. He had a couple of rounds loaded in his revolver when he was killed. It was believed that his training kicked in and he "had" to load all six. It is also believed that had he closed the cylinder on the rounds he had already loaded he may have been able to shoot his assailant and survive. Officers learned that you do not necessarily need a fully loaded revolver to win a gunfight. The Newhall Incident occurred in 1970 and the lessons from it are still viable today no matter what handgun you carry.
 
also in that Newhall incident the officer was putting his empty cases in his pocket during the reload rather than just dumping them on the ground. Again a habit of practice, as this is how it was done at the range.
 
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