The revealing story of a rancher and the national debt

John/az2

New member
This was a fascinating read, and what seems to me a good expanation of why we are so restricted in the use of "our own" land.

The site:
http://www.ashevilletribune.com/hage1.htm

Bits and pieces from the article:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One of the first incidents that drew the line between Wayne and the Forest Service revolved around a critical spring that Wayne owned. Situated close to the Forest Service Ranger Station in Meadow Canyon, the district ranger decided they would pipe the water from the spring, through a newly installed $50,000 water purification facility, into their cabin. Wayne learned of this after the project was complete, and rightfully objected. He explained that if they needed his water, they could make appropriate arrangements. They refused to cooperate and would not acknowledge that he owned the water even though he held two court decrees affirming his water right. Wayne even held a field hearing where the state water engineer acknowledged Wayne's ownership and the Forest Service's illegal confiscation. But, still today, the Forest Service has maintained a fence around the spring so that cattle and wildlife cannot drink, and the water is still being piped into the ranger's cabin...

Some of these charges stated Wayne was not maintaining his drift fences. In order to comply with their rules, Wayne would check and mend if necessary the fences in question. One of these incidents involved sending a horse and rider to the top of Table Mountain to ride the 20-mile fence line. After doing this, the rider found only one problem. There was one staple missing. The Forest Service had dutifully marked it with a blue flag...

Although they had no legal justification for their actions, they took the cattle, handed Wayne a bill for their cost of gathering the cattle, transported the cattle to a sale yard which refused to auction the stolen cattle, and eventually the Forest Service held their own private sale and kept the proceeds...

In the 1960's the general teaching of Economics 101 was that we shouldn't worry too much about our national debt as we owed it to ourselves, and hence it wouldn't have to be paid off. Besides all that gold, silver, gas, oil and other mineral rights out west more than adequately collateralize it...

What Nixon did next, and what stunned a lot of folks, was to set up the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and we began to pass massive environmental laws. And for what real purpose? All of them have had one effect collectively, whether at the Federal, state or local level. The one thing they all do is that they effect the transfer of private property out of the hands of private individuals and place that property into the hands of government. Now what is that all about?
[/quote]

------------------
John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited January 07, 2000).]
 
Hmmm. If we apply our Second Amendment thoughts to our land, we must say that we don't "own" our land or have "rights" to it.

1) The government can take our land from us any time they desire by using their own rules: eminent domain; default on various loans, taxes, etc.; suddenly declaring it "wetlands"; and so on. Here in Texas, it is against the law to cut down what we call "trash trees" or "cedars". (They're actually a type of juniper tree.) Seems some little birdie likes cedar bark for its nest. Violate the government's environment and they can take you to court, bankrupt you, and take whatever they demand.

2) The various government entities charge us "rent" on our own property in the form of real estate taxes - even after we've paid for it all with income they've already taxed.

3) Various government entities dictate whether or not we may have a well, septic tank, what type of buildings, which and how many animals, where we may or may not put our homes; what kind and size of pipe we must have under our driveway (on "their" easement); etc., etc.

Interesting. And still some people say, "It's a free country!"

I sure am glad the Republicans have protected us from the Big Government efforts of the Democrats. :rolleyes:

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
It will only get worse. I have a meeting this month. I have to draw a map with all distances to any type of water or drainoff. Well, sewer, ditch, pond, puddles, This will be public knowledge. Including what each building is for.
You don't own the land your grandfather bought and paid taexes on... And your father ... and now you. You are only paying rent.
 
Dennis, you must be living in Kerr County. Sounds like it. They're proud of their septic tanks down there. I live in Gillespie and I can still have a cess pool if I so choose!
 
Kjm,

Cess pools!! Yuck!!!

Then again, "Can't be no worse than when Austin's in session." ;)

I'm in Canyon Lake (Comal Co.). We're becoming quite "civilized" (unfortunately).

The Sheriff's Dept., however, is TOPS! So is our new EMS/Fire Dept.

Let's get together on e-mail or we'll make all the non-Texans jealous! (heh, heh, heh)

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited January 07, 2000).]
 
Larry...
Yep...I have the State and the large city 30 mi to my south making separate water grabs.
The State wants us to voluntarily put meters on our wells so they can monitor water use for "info purposes". Of course its not widely known, they wish to set useage levels in the future..tax what you use and have to get permission if you start using more.
I own my farm free and clear,own the water and mineral rights, I pay for the well,pumps,motors and electricity. Told them to pound sand.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
So you think you own your own land?
So you think you own your own home?
-------

Ref San Antonio Express-News (1/4/00; pg 1B) article, “Brush fires flare
up across area”

Near the end of the article, the author explains the brush fire, “... burned
right up to the foundation of Robert Carr’s home.” Mr. Carr stated, “I was
out there fighting the fire until the Fire Department made me leave. They
said they would arrest me if I didn’t leave. ...”

1) I don’t believe the fire department has any power of arrest above and
beyond that of any ordinary citizen. Therefore, although interfering with a
public servant is a misdemeanor, a firefighter would need to have a peace
officer arrest the homeowner.

2) If the fire was burning around my home, and I was fighting the fire
with my own hose, etc. and a firefighter tried to arrest me, I would resist
and tell him to leave my property.

Presumably he would then have a cop arrest me for the misdemeanor of
interfering with a public servant. If I resisted the police officer’s arrest,
that would be an additional misdemeanor. If I resisted by threat of force
or actual force, it would become a felony. If I tried to defend myself and
prevent the arrest by using a gun, saying only that I would not be taken
from my own home, the officer could shoot and kill me in response
to my threat.

Now, read to me again the Fourth and Ninth Amendments to our
Constitution and explain how the Democrats and Republicans have kept us
free! :mad:

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
Similar to here.

If you are a farmer, and hold your land freehold, you can not clear any of it without permission from the government. In fact, they are forcing some farmers to give up previously-cleared farmland and replant trees.

But New South Wales is trying to go one step better. There, they want a tax on the amount of rainwater farmers use. (This applies to farms with stream/river/creek frontages). It goes like this: Your farm area x the average rainfall = the amount of water on your land. Then calculate the amount that flows into farm dams. Then tax the farmer on the amount "stolen" by dams from run-off. The theory is if it wasn't for the dams, all the water would be available for all the populace.

Easy, huh? What helps here is that the government can resume _any_ land privately owned, simply by offering to pay what it sees as "fair market value". You don't like it? Tough!

B
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What helps here is that the government can resume _any_
land privately owned, simply by offering to pay what it sees as "fair
market value". [/quote]

Ahhh...ye old "eminent domain" Well,we modern farmers aren't uneducated, dirty, animal skin-wearing dullards anymore ;)

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Some firefighters are commissioned peace officers, e.g. arson investigators.

In one local fire dept. only the officers wore badges.

I don't know the general rules. Perhaps some smoke-eater will explain for us.. :confused:
 
Back
Top