Went plinking today. It rained a little, decided to stick around anyway. The range was a valley overgrown with shrubbery.
After zeroing a couple of guns and testing magazines, I set up a grocery bag at roughly 80m distance. My reasoning was that a brown paper bag is about the size of the vitals on a human opponent, esp. if that human is prone. With the leaves turning brown and yellow, the bag was effectively comouflaged. I hanged the bag on a couple of limbs so that it was slightly obsured by vegetation but could turn a little with the gusting wind.
I got into "rice paddy" squat and opened fire. Fired six 223 rounds from an AR15, six 308s from an M1A. Although a direct comparison is not possible due to the variation in the wind and the bag position, I did get 5/6 hits with 308 and 3/6 with 223.
Observations: the bag was very hard to see. Even though I knew where it was and could see parts of it, I was never sure which parts I saw. Though I knew the range to the target and knew the amount of hold-over needed, I could not use Kentuky windage because of the uncertainty as to which part of the target I saw. Focusing on the front sight also made the target disappear against the background. 80m seems very far away from a well-lit, cleared and marked range.
If this was for real, I would have tried to go prone and would have been unable to see the target at all. I would have fired much faster. My bullets would have had to go through a lot of vegetation even at 80m. All in all, the best I could do is point right at the target and pull the trigger without thinking much about finer point of riflecraft. Adjustment of hits by observation proved impossible because any dirt thrown up was only visible with 308 and even that was on a hillside some 80-100m behind the target.
This indicates to me that 5.45/5.56 and 7.62 would do better than slower rounds like 7.62x39 or 30 carbine as far as the ability to hit even at a short range of 80m. If the enemy is prone or behind cover, then my point blank range is really under 100m (the size of the exposed opponent would be small). Further, between vegetation and any other cover (trees, earth) used by the opponent, 308 would have a great advantage over 223, not so much in making the hit effective as making the hit at all. OTOH, I can pull the trigger 30 times with 223 vs 20 time with 308 and that improves the probability of hitting even once, esp. if the target moves, returns fire and so on. While folks who punch dimes might scoff at the ratio of shots to casualties that the military has, I can see how my ratio is likely to be as bad. Assuming 120 round load of 308 or 210 rounds of 223, I would expect to be lucky to hit even once or to live long enough to use that much ammo.
Basically, my preference is for fast and heavy rounds. However, slow and relatively heavy (AK 7.62) has the ability to buck deflection due to vegetation even though the trajectory isn't all that flat...and lower recoil and weight make sustained fire easier.
All in all, I have revised my estimate of effectiveness to 5-7m with pistol, 10-12m with shotgun and under 50m with rifle. That may change once I get more training and more exercise but, for now, I can barely defend myself much less fight from a stand-off range. Scopes help in some ways but I am still unwilling to rely on them due to the concerns about fragility.
Also tested penetration of 12ga slugs, buckshot, 223 ball and 308 ball/soft points. Result: cover is a good idea. Wood, brick, metal are all good. 223 would fragment on surprisingly little metal cover but still do serious damage for a couple feet past it (moral: don't hug your cover). 12ga slugs were clearly the nastiest damage-maker on hard cover but 308 soft points came pretty close second. 223 ball broke up on hard cover that would not stop 45acp JHP the week before, seems that not enough core remains to penetrate after the jacket abraids in the passing through.
Wish list based on the experience: large magazine capacity, flat trajectory. Secondary list: penetration. Seems to me that getting an effective hit is less of an issue than getting some hit at all. Going toe to toe against a SAW or an M60 would be a losing cause indeed: weight of fire matters and I would not wish to bring a bolt action or a shotgun to a fight.
After zeroing a couple of guns and testing magazines, I set up a grocery bag at roughly 80m distance. My reasoning was that a brown paper bag is about the size of the vitals on a human opponent, esp. if that human is prone. With the leaves turning brown and yellow, the bag was effectively comouflaged. I hanged the bag on a couple of limbs so that it was slightly obsured by vegetation but could turn a little with the gusting wind.
I got into "rice paddy" squat and opened fire. Fired six 223 rounds from an AR15, six 308s from an M1A. Although a direct comparison is not possible due to the variation in the wind and the bag position, I did get 5/6 hits with 308 and 3/6 with 223.
Observations: the bag was very hard to see. Even though I knew where it was and could see parts of it, I was never sure which parts I saw. Though I knew the range to the target and knew the amount of hold-over needed, I could not use Kentuky windage because of the uncertainty as to which part of the target I saw. Focusing on the front sight also made the target disappear against the background. 80m seems very far away from a well-lit, cleared and marked range.
If this was for real, I would have tried to go prone and would have been unable to see the target at all. I would have fired much faster. My bullets would have had to go through a lot of vegetation even at 80m. All in all, the best I could do is point right at the target and pull the trigger without thinking much about finer point of riflecraft. Adjustment of hits by observation proved impossible because any dirt thrown up was only visible with 308 and even that was on a hillside some 80-100m behind the target.
This indicates to me that 5.45/5.56 and 7.62 would do better than slower rounds like 7.62x39 or 30 carbine as far as the ability to hit even at a short range of 80m. If the enemy is prone or behind cover, then my point blank range is really under 100m (the size of the exposed opponent would be small). Further, between vegetation and any other cover (trees, earth) used by the opponent, 308 would have a great advantage over 223, not so much in making the hit effective as making the hit at all. OTOH, I can pull the trigger 30 times with 223 vs 20 time with 308 and that improves the probability of hitting even once, esp. if the target moves, returns fire and so on. While folks who punch dimes might scoff at the ratio of shots to casualties that the military has, I can see how my ratio is likely to be as bad. Assuming 120 round load of 308 or 210 rounds of 223, I would expect to be lucky to hit even once or to live long enough to use that much ammo.
Basically, my preference is for fast and heavy rounds. However, slow and relatively heavy (AK 7.62) has the ability to buck deflection due to vegetation even though the trajectory isn't all that flat...and lower recoil and weight make sustained fire easier.
All in all, I have revised my estimate of effectiveness to 5-7m with pistol, 10-12m with shotgun and under 50m with rifle. That may change once I get more training and more exercise but, for now, I can barely defend myself much less fight from a stand-off range. Scopes help in some ways but I am still unwilling to rely on them due to the concerns about fragility.
Also tested penetration of 12ga slugs, buckshot, 223 ball and 308 ball/soft points. Result: cover is a good idea. Wood, brick, metal are all good. 223 would fragment on surprisingly little metal cover but still do serious damage for a couple feet past it (moral: don't hug your cover). 12ga slugs were clearly the nastiest damage-maker on hard cover but 308 soft points came pretty close second. 223 ball broke up on hard cover that would not stop 45acp JHP the week before, seems that not enough core remains to penetrate after the jacket abraids in the passing through.
Wish list based on the experience: large magazine capacity, flat trajectory. Secondary list: penetration. Seems to me that getting an effective hit is less of an issue than getting some hit at all. Going toe to toe against a SAW or an M60 would be a losing cause indeed: weight of fire matters and I would not wish to bring a bolt action or a shotgun to a fight.
. I know we all fancy ourselves to be cool-handed 500 yard crackshots, but most of us aren't that good. Some of us are, though, and if the SHTF, well, you guys are going to need guys like me around to carry your ammo
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