The main reason I think folks should carry...

F

FlySubCompact

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The main reason is because I think that the majority of folks who inhabit this world are basically good. Just a small portion are bad.

Examples:

A crazy walks into a college and starts executing his fellow students. His intent it to kill as many as possible with the ammo he has. Virginia Tech type deal. If even 10 of the thirty folks in one of the classrooms had been armed, that would have shut the crazy down sooner.

An airplane...mid flight...4 crazy Islamic terrorist highjack the flight. Intent is to take out a large building...9/1 fashion. (BTW, since the events of 9/11 everybody NOW knows that if someone highjacks your plane that everybody is going to die....unless you rise up and fight for your lives....Flight 93 were the first to know this and they did rise up and were at least able to blunt the terrorist main objective.) I think that passengers should at least be issued dead blow hammer at boarding. An armed air marshall, armed pilots and 70 "scared for thier lives" passengers. Do you think 4 crazies with rubber hammers are going to access a cockpit now?

Luby's style event......I recall the lady who lost her folks to that nut-job and how she wished she could have been carrying that day. 10 others packing heat could have shut him down sooner.

I call this idea "Democratic Survival". :) Like I said, it is based on the idea that most folks, when faced with such a horrible situation, are basically good, want to live and will do what is needed to shut down some crazies.

The idea may be considered overly simplistic, but that is how I feel about the situation. Maybe some of you can come up with a cooler or catchyer name?
 
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Um, sometimes armed folks get shot up and killed. More is needed than just a gun in hand.

2 of my friends were murdered, a sis in her home strangled, a friend shot in his kitchen, James Garner was his name. still havent found the killer and Jim always had a gun on his person.

A gun isnt the end all of violence, it wont stop everyone or everything.
 
Having just finished flying coach, I would prefer not having all those annoyed people waving hammers. Airplane security is more complex than cliches.

On the other hand, campus carry should be allowed.
 
For many decades airlines did not screen for firearms and i can't recall one instance of passengers suddenly getting the urge to let lead fly in the cabin.

Personally I would prefer to be armed in an airline against the more likely chance of a terrorist/criminal being on board. And armed on a train, subway, cruise ship, mall, etc.
 
We've done guns on planes before. That's not really the central focus of the OP.

Do we want that discussion again? The core is that we carry to defend ourselves - anymore to say beyond that?

Otherwise, this is an attaboy thread for carry.
 
Of all the instances you mentioned, getting hit by lightning has a better chance of happening - and repeatedly.

If you are so scared and worried about every single what-if, might-happen, you might as well buy a mountain top and never leave - you have better odds of getting hit by a potato chip truck crossing the street...

the point? If you want to protect against any possibility of harm, you need your own self-supporting space somewhere with no human interaction - since that is totally ridiculous, your carry argument based on those scenarios is just as ridiculous......

Carry because you want to, because you can, or whatever, but please don't carry because you think you will run into one of these one in a billion instances
 
For the instances he mentioned, sure.

But I know a lot more people, personally, who have had to deal with:

rapists;
robbers;
carjackers;
and just plain crazies

than I know people who have been struck by lightning. (Edit: I was almost struck by lightning once, but my buddy - who owned the sailboat - hollered at me to not bother to secure his sails and just get away from the big metal mast; boat got hit by lightning just as I cleared his dock.)

Now, as a percentage of people I know, how many have been raped (or suffered an attempted rape), or robbed, or carjacked (actually, none of the three were successfully carjacked, as all three were armed - two cases, the carjackers ran, and one case, the carjacker died), or assaulted by crazies? Single digits; probably low single digits.

Still, that is way more than have been struck by lightning.

As for me, I've only been burglarized, so far, or subjected to simple assaults (but for those, wrestling and martial arts background were sufficient). But can I say I've been a victim of crimes? Yes.

So, perhaps some think people are crying, "The sky is falling."

Me, I'd say that just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you. (Note to Glenn E Meyer, I'm quoting a song, not calling anybody paranoid.)
 
I have been hit by lightning and thus the gods are after me. A friend of mine was in a DC-8 that fell out of the sky and lived.

We were in class where the instructor said XYZ was as rare as being hit by lightning or being in a jet crash. We both cracked up.

However, carrying a gun would not have helped.

Glenn
 
Blue Train,

Sorry for those personal loss. Fortunatelly, I can't relate to that...never had anyone in my life circle that was murdered. Shame your aquaintance didn't have some warning and time to defend themselves.

Markj,

I never said a gun was an end to all violence. The premise in my original post basically follows along the same idea that "An armed society is a polite society." and that seeing how the majority of people are basically good. I'd rather be in an invironment where "most" were armed if they so choose.

Glenn Meyer,

I mentioned passengers being issued dead blow hammers because I think the "majority" of passengers should have some method avaiable
for self protection in a highjacking. (maybe they'd fall from the ceiling, like oxygen masks, if the pilots hit a button??) The "good majority" of folks on Flight 93 sure would have liked to have had something to beat those crazies down with. Better than bare hands and a serving cart. I personally came up with the hammer idea because these would be quite effective on skulls....not so much on pilot cabin locks and windows. Armed pilots and armed air marshalls are a great idea, IMO.

I also mention hammers because firearms will never be an option for most on a flight the way I see it. The old argument that a stray bullet going through a fuselage and causing the cabin to instantly depressurize has been debunked, but a stray bullet can take out a pilot's brain or a major hydraulic line.

Agree with NWPilgrim....in the old days I can't recall folks shooting up a domestic flight. Of course, this was also a rarer thing in general, everywhere. It seems that more stringent firearm prohibitions have created shooting galeries for crazy folks. They gravitate to places where they know folks can't defend themselves. Like a school.

Out of time now. I will reply to the others at next op.
 
BlueTrain, I have thought about it. Not sure if you have.

After all, some will think nobody is after them because they feel they are above such things, or that they have God's special favor, or that they are just too big and scary.

Some will think that their grasp of statistics means they will always be "right."

Vanity comes in many flavors.
 
I do not come from the same ilk that the OP does. I do not have faith in that most people will "act" at all, but rather run like hell to save themselve above all else. Most people, have no clue how to defend themselves and their first instinct is to get out of there to safety. I've also watched very well trained officers run like a rabbit the first time someone fired a shot at them.

I do not have the belief that most people are "good", because I've seen too many violent crimes, psychopaths, murders, bodies, autopsies, and crimes against people.... I've seen firsthand how cold and ruthless people can be to other human beings.

People do NOT realize how much goes on in their community, and if they did.... most would be running for the countryside and hiding. The number of murders, violent crimes, etc are NOT all reported. IN fact , in the scheme of things only few every really hit the news or the papers. You can probably take everything you've heard and mutiply it by at least 20 , to get an idea of all that is really going on out there.

And the number of people willing to kill during a robbery or home invasion, is increasing all of the time ... because of the more and more prevalent "leave no witnesses" mentality.

For every serial killer caught, there are at least 10 more out there that are yet unknown and active.

And most people don't want to know about it, and prefer living with their head in the sand while convincing themselves the "it's all ok.... what's the chances it will never happen to me". Probably every victim out there, including those that have been killed, have made that statement

And the one I really love the most, " I live in a nice part of town, it wouldn't happen here " . Sure.... right.
 
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Glenn said:
I have been hit by lightning and thus the gods are after me. A friend of mine was in a DC-8 that fell out of the sky and lived.

We were in class where the instructor said XYZ was as rare as being hit by lightning or being in a jet crash. We both cracked up.

However, carrying a gun would not have helped.

Glenn
Click to expand...

Belly laugh. That's awesome.
 
Eagleks,

I agree with you 100% my only issue with private citizens carrying most do not possess the skill and training to employ a weapon correctly in a life and death situation, I know training isn’t everything but it doesn’t hurt. When your life is threatened your body (mind) goes into a fight or flight mode. Your mind shuts down and you lose fine motor coordination. Firing a handgun requires fine motor skills only repetitive (reflexive) training will overcome this issue however it is not a guarantee. Fear is a killer and can cripple the best of us in a life and death situation. I’ve personally seen this first hand and fear can spread like wild fire with 24+ years in the military as an MP and 3 years in civilian law enforcement a person just doesn’t know what they are going to do until they are being shot at. However, training like you fight can help.

Joe
 
OP seems to be asking for comments on his label "Democratic Survival".

Which seems to be a tendency for humans to want to protect each other in groups.

I'm not sure whether the point is that the tendency exists or that it should be brought into existence.

I'm not familiar with any research that suggests that such a tendency is already out there.

As previously mentioned, I fear that most will simply run and hide. Nor do I see that particularly as a negative. I don't believe most humans willingly put their lives and the lives of their loved ones on the line for strangers.

Where I work, we train for active shooter response. The basic training is: "lock your office door and hide under your desk and wait 'til it's all over". (Where I work, armed security is most certainly obligated to come save us as soon as they can do so).

If such a phenomenon exists or is trained into existence (i.e; be willing to sacrifice yourself for the common good), "Democratic Survival" is probably a pretty good term for it. I can't think of a better one.

But it's not on my list of the reasons I carry a gun and I won't hold my breath 'til it comes along.

Will
 
psyfly,

Thanks for actually reading/understanding my first post.

My main premise doesn't neccessarily supose that most folks "will take one for the team" when faced with any violent situation. The scenarios mention instances where folks find themselves cooped up where a crazy pretty much knows there will be little resistance or methods of escape. Even with the Flight 93 example some of those who did charge the highjacked cockpit may have only been motivated by self preservation. Not any real care for any other person on the plane. Which aint a bad thing for that particular situation, IMO.

Eagleks,

I've never been referred to as "ilk". Real "high road" of you.
BTW, I am not a pollyanna. One thing I've grown to understand as an adult is the saying: "Good" people have one main handicap....they can't fathom just how terrible "bad" people can be." I have seen the boogie man and that is one reason I have firearms. Though the first primal thoughts that crosses the mind when I see a firearm are "fun" and "target practice"

oneounceload,

You seemed to have read my original post and gathered from it that I need to live on an isolated mountain somewhere. I find that comical. First, because you've kind of read that and now know my total pshycological makeup. :eek: As far as carry, I almost never do. Don't have the need in my life circle. I do have a CC permit just for when travels will take me to a place a firearm might be handy to have close. That permit and firearm did come in handy for me once. Glad I was armed that day. Self preservation was my motivation in that particular situation.
 
I still see little utility in carrying Mjolnir clones on the plane. Having them fall out of the ceiling of the plane during a hijacking sound like a fine idea (:rolleyes:).

When you fly, one can carry reasonable impact weapons that are not as silly. Sturdy tactical pens are available and one can carry a Surefire or other variant that has light and impact utility.

If hijackers get up with some kind of impact weapon - a hundred people can swamp anything short of Mjolnir with laptops, back packs or attache cases.

Even knives can be negated by dedicated folks with common stuff. The 9/11 folks succeeded because of no resistance from 3 planes. That doesn't happen now.

As far as gun armed passengers - I don't want to referee that one again. Search on it.

So, to conclude - the hammer idea is just plain silly - to continue would be trolling.
 
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