The liberals are on to something

N

Northern Sod Breaker

New member
When they say they people want all these new laws they are right. Sure there is a small minority of responsible citisens. But the great majority of the public wants big brother to manage their money for them. And they can't trust themselves with guns so they want big brother to protect them from those too. And of course they want big brother to set their diet for them. Banning fat and smoking and the like. I won't go on, I've made my point.
 
.... And the republicans are so much better ?? Dont they have thier own issues they like to play big brother on. Heres 2 words that will help you get where I am coming from CONSENTING ADULTS. Doesnt matter wich side your leaning to these days youll find support for a nanny state.
 
And the republicans are so much better ??
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Ah yes... Who could forget the library record checking. Wouldn't want anyone to check out a controversial book now would we. OR the Govt. wire taps in case we decide to talk to someone they don't like. OR the requirement that a person sign pages and pages of documents in they spend over $3K in paper money.
 
or a person has to avoid certain acts in the privacy of their own living room, or worse yet, bedroom. can't have that sinful sodomy or those evil marijuana joints destroying the fabric of this great christian society. can't let a woman make up her mind about her own body, nosireee

the planet? frak it, who cares about the environment when poor, poor exxon is skimming along on such a tiny profit margin. nah, our grandkids can survive just fine on less land with dirtier air and water.
 
oh come on, most republicans dont care about what others do behind closed doors, its taking it into public with marriage that concerns them, thats just being unfair, maybe there are some who feel that way, but theyre in the minority among republicans
 
Sooo, are you just going to whine on an internet message board to like-minded individuals, or are you going to seriously look at the libertarian party.:eek:
 
oh come on, most republicans dont care about what others do behind closed doors, its taking it into public with marriage that concerns them, thats just being unfair, maybe there are some who feel that way, but theyre in the minority among republicans
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Ah so it's ok for one group to do something publicly but not another. I reckon some of those same republicans feel the same about interracial marriages.
 
libertarian party sucks
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Wow. I mean just...wow. Joe I want to be the first to thank you for your deep consideration of the issue and for taking your time to put your complex veiws into words. Truely a credit to the TFL community.

Now, back to the origional topic: Most Americans are uneffected by the majority of these "big brother laws". But I would be willing to bet that almost every American is affected by atleast one of these laws and is suitably annoyed. If all those people were to say enough is enough and just vote for everyones rights maybe we would see some change.
 
OK why is everyone ganking him for posting about liberals? He didn't say DEMOCRATS, he said LIBERALS.
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Back in the day "liberals" were the ones that told white cops in the south they could no longer beat up random black guys for no reason. Liberals were the ones that pushed for women to have the same rights as men. Liberals stopped factory owners from working people twelve hours a day six days a week, liberals pointed out the damage being done to the environment, liberals have done a number of good things.

They push for a lot of distasteful things today but then again so do conservatives. What's that they say about glass houses?
 
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I belive it is something about making a romantic Valentine's day with the SO difficult.:D

I would like to point out an example you neglected to mention:Our Founding Fathers were-in their day-considered as liberal as we consider Hilary. Challenging the status quo is the essence of liberty and liberalism. That is why I think that some should take a long hard look at their party and say, "I only have two choices? I have more than that at McDonald's". The status quo works for a while, but is constantly changing.
 
I can't use liberal history as a guide to liberal future. I must vote based on what the libs are doing now. I find much of what they stand for as dangerous to the country and morally wrong. They desire appeasement of our enemies and push for social liberties that weaken the family. "If it feels good do it" has destroyed American families for decades. Appeasement has given us this Muslim extremist threat we face today.

The conservatives have issues as well but those issues strengthen family and country.

Libertarians tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative to Liberals and Conservatives this is the worst of both worlds in their perspective views.
 
I'm not suggesting using the liberal history as a guide for the future but to deny the good things liberals have done is just plain wrong. That being said I don't buy that liberal ideals are "weakening the family". Your family is not weakened by two gays getting married, your family is not weakened by a woman having an abortion, your family is not weakened by a guy smoking a bowl, your family is not weakened by sex in music videos and your family is not weakened by keeping teachers from leading prayers. If it is then the problem is not external, it's internal.

Just because the "traditional" family doesn't jive well with that does not mean the untraditional family is no less important. I have no blood to rely on but I do have family and mine is no less important to me than your blood is to yours.

As for the Muslim extremist threat, that's more the result of our foreign policy than any appeasement by the liberals. Or are we still pretending they "hate freedom"?

Some of the things conservatives push for weaken the country more than anything the liberals could suggest. Religion in science class, special treatment for hetero couples denied to homo couples, destruction of civil liberties in the name of the wars on drugs and terror, spitting on freedom of speech in the name of some abstract concept called "decency". None of those strengthen the country.

I'm glad liberals and conservatives see libertarians as the worst of the both worlds. It helps me see who really cares about freedom in this country and who simply pretends to.
 
"If it feels good do it" has destroyed American families for decades. Appeasement has given us this Muslim extremist threat we face today.
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Actually, "if it feels good, we don't want you to do it" has created the web of laws that have practically destroyed the bill of rights and respect for the law, and many families.

And there would be nothing to appease without imperialism and corruption over the resources of other nations.

The conservatives have issues as well but those issues strengthen family and country
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Some conservatives, the fiscal ones, have much of the nation's wealth and want it to stay that way. The rest, the social conservatives, are duped by religion and "family values" into supporting the status quo (despite the regular discovery that their leaders um, depart significantly from their party line, Ted Haggart and a recently-disgraced senator being two glaring examples).

Such fraud and deceit is not lost on kids, and seriously undermines their respect for authority, authority being the entity that is supposed to represent doing the right thing. This weakens, not strengthens, the family and, by weakening respect for necessary laws, weakens the nation.
 
That being said I don't buy that liberal ideals are "weakening the family". Your family is not weakened by two gays getting married, your family is not weakened by a woman having an abortion, your family is not weakened by a guy smoking a bowl, your family is not weakened by sex in music videos and your family is not weakened by keeping teachers from leading prayers.
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My family isn't weakened by it......because I fight and claw to prevent it from effecting them. You can't however tell me that the reductions in family values hasn't put pressures on families like mine who try to avoid the above list of ideals from effecting ours. Further I submit that the increases in violence, divorce rates, single parents, violent crime, drug use, and other ills of society are a direct result of liberal ideals that began in the 60's.

It is a fact that mild drug use promotes hard drug use. So that guy smoking a bowl and becomes addicted to crack and leaves his family, hits me one the head with a bat (to get drug money) killing me and leaving my children fatherless, etc. I see the effects of drugs alone everyday working at the Pawnshop.

You sit down and think through the consequences totally and your mind will change.
 
How is your family affected by those things? It's not unless you mean you're fighting to shield your children from the realities of life and nature. If that's the case then it's your own choice to deny them the world around them and you're the one making the fight happen. The "family values" I hold dear are no less important than the ones you hold dear.

The divorce rates are the fault of the people getting divorced, which is a far greater attack on the "sanctity of marriage" than two chicks getting hitched could ever be. Yet I don't see conservatives clamoring to illegalize divorce. Single parents can also be blamed on the conservative trend to keep kids uninformed about sex until they're adults, denying them knowledge of something completely natural and expecting them to resist basic instinctual urges because it's a "sin".

Violent crime in the 60s could also be blamed on those old conservative ideals of keeping blacks segregated; maybe if they weren't treated so horribly and dumped into projects the impoverished wouldn't be resorting to so much crime.

Drug use can be blamed on the founding fathers that ran breweries, or are we also pretending that alcohol is not a drug?

It is not a "fact" that soft drug use leads to hard drug use. If you want to believe that then at least admit the trend begins with alcohol and tobacco, not marijuana. Most potheads do not become crackheads, that is a fact. You see the effects of the war on drugs, not the drugs themselves. Those crackheads wouldn't be robbing pawnshops as often if crack wasn't so expensive due to the black market, if it didn't require a criminal element to purchase and if it was regulated for safety and prescribed by doctors.

I have thought through the consequences and the conservative ideals lead to equally as dangerous results than liberal ones. My mind won't change because unlike both liberals and conservatives libertarians actually give a flying frak about real freedom and liberty, not just enough freedom and liberty for the things that make them happy.
 
libertarian party sucks because it undermines the real parties, ya i said it, REAL PARTIES, libertarian party is never going to amount to anything more than a spoiler for either side. i have no problem with libertarian values, but honestly, pick a party and push your values through that party rather than screwing everyone else.

and whats up with liberals wanting to ban smoking, but legalize pot, pot is unfiltered, hallucenogenic (sp?) cigarettes, dont try and tell me thats good for you. amsterdam has gone to hell because the legalized pot. and dont even try and put alcohol in the same league as other drugs, its a lot different, and you know it. I have family members whose whole lives are screwed up becuase of pot, whose pot-smoking friends are all dead, and who still think that pot is "harmless" screwTHAT. and I really and truely dont have a problem with gay, or interracial, or whatever relationships, I am against gay marriage cause I dont think its healthy for kids to grow up in an environment without both parents, not that single parenting is wrong, I was raised by a single mother, but the government doesnt have to endorse a home without both parents. think of it this way, do you, as a father/mother, think you have something unique to offer your kid that could not be offered by a spouse of the opposite sex? most people would answer yes.

thats enough for one post, dont take my language as offensive or a personal attack, Im just passionate about politics
 
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Uh, Guys...

If y'all don't get this thing back on a "gun-related" topic, it's not gonna last much longer...

... just saying.
 
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